Ep. 15: The Aftermath - Emotionally Digesting Life's Big Moments

This episode explores the vital theme of digesting life’s experiences and the importance of finding balance between intense events and everyday recovery. Our hosts share personal stories, practical tools for emotional integration and the significance of nurturing oneself during transitions. 

• Discussing the significance of emotional digestion after big experiences 
• Recognising patterns of intensity and the rush towards the next event 
• Sharing personal anecdotes related to transitions from travel and significant life events 
• Exploring practical strategies to communicate and acknowledge emerging needs 
• Emphasising resilience, self-compassion, and the messy nature of recovery 
• Encouraging listeners to allow themselves time to digest both highs and lows

Chapters

• 1:19 The Art of Digesting Life's Experiences
• 10:27 Life's Experiences
• 23:27 Navigating Growth and Comfort Zones
• 27:03 The Power of Digesting Experiences
• 37:45 Meeting and Bonding With Like-Minded Mothers
• 50:40 Building Resilience and Embracing Life's Challenges
• 1:03:48 Recovery and Self-Compassion

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:19

hello everyone, welcome back to the juicy pod. It's your girl, liv. It's Lola. We are back, we are diving straight in today for a juicy conversation and we're really coming in with a topic. We did mention last time that we were going to talk about this, and so it just felt like let's go, let's talk about this, let's dive straight in. So, um, yeah, we're coming to you today. The studio is like steaming hot, if you could imagine, like a, like the seats are on fire. That's how it feels for me, anyway. My studio's on fire, uh. And so we wanted to talk about this topic, and I'll just say that, for me, digesting life topic, which you haven't told them the topic yet, by the way, haven't?

Speaker 1: 2:18

I oh sorry you just.

Speaker 2: 2:21

We know how excited you are and how hot your chair is.

Speaker 1: 2:25

I'm so bad at starting, it's all right, listen, it's all good babe yeah, so well, if you were, if you listened to the last episode, at the end of the last episode we talked about that. We wanted to talk about digestion and digestion of life, digestion of life's experiences, um, and this is something that we talk about a lot offline. It's one of those ones that, for us, it's something that we talk often offline, and so it feels like something that's going to be really nice to have in public and recorded as a resource for you for us to come back to. Yeah, real, talk.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Let me share a disclaimer, because I'm just not good at hiding stuff. So, um, and I don't have to tell you this, but I'm gonna. Basically, I'm going away soon and for work, and in that pro, I know that when I come back, transitions are tricky, right. So the transition to go away but then the transition to come back into my life, um, it's going to be hard. It always is right and this is what we're talking about digestion of big experiences going to be a big experience. I'm going to go and experience and then come back and digest it, and I was quite selfishly thinking this morning you know what'd be really good maybe if we talk about this now, then I've got it as a resource for when I come back, you know, um, and that that's kind of what's making us bring it to you.

Speaker 2: 3:46

But, like Liv said, we've talked about this for years and we've talked about it, we've lived it, we've done so much trial and error. I feel like we have a lot of wisdom actually, babe, and experience in it, even though it does feel like a mess, and we, it's deeply, deeply, uncomfortable for us. Actually, babe, an experience in it, even though it does feel like a mess, and we um, just deeply, deeply uncomfortable for us, but I do think we do have a lot of skill and we would love to share what we have learned, and we don't. I don't personally really know what that is right now, if I'm honest, but I know it will just come out yeah, yeah, me too, me too.

Speaker 1: 4:23

The first thing, actually, that I'm inspired to say is I think we're quite similar in this regard, uh, and I'm sure lots of people relate to this, because I think this is really, culturally, our condition to be um is intensity hunters, is intensity hunters, um, and so I'd say, for me, the backdrop to my life before digestion and I didn't I mean there was a period of time where, like, I'll be like, well, digesting an experience like what do you mean? Not integrating, like I didn't even know what that was one experience. What's happening next?

Speaker 2: 4:59

what's next? What's next the?

Speaker 1: 5:02

next trip. On the plane ride home, I'd be like right landing, not even gonna let myself feel the comedown of this. What's next? What's next, what's next? I'd be on a plane every month, every six weeks. I was just living life truly in the fast lane and there was many reasons why, and I'm sure we'll actually talk about that today. Um, so it feels important to name the backdrop.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Before I really learned to live my life, with digestion of an experience being even a value, a valuable thing to even be thinking about and planning for, there was a period of time where this wasn't even on the radar and I didn't even know that it was important.

Speaker 1: 5:40

Um, and you know, like all things in life, I had to learn, because you know the way that I was living, living a life without space for digesting, without the skill of digesting, was making me physically sick.

Speaker 1: 5:54

It was, quite frankly, making the experiences I was having really diminish in the value that they were able to offer my life, because I just couldn't recover from them.

Speaker 1: 6:03

I didn't know how to recover. Um, and so, yeah, I wanted to set the backdrop that for me, this wasn't a priority until it needed to be and, like Lola mentioned, um, this is something that we have spent a long, a lot of time, you know, figuring, figuring out and acknowledging and finessing and refining, and I would say for me it's been a big part of the work I've done with women. It's teaching how to live in a more cyclical nature with life and to not always be pumping the gas and trying to extract the things that feel good and the things that are, you know, potentially um more of a peak experience or fun, or living at the top of the mountain. I have really learned how to teach people how to climb off the mountain and do that in a way that can honestly be quite pleasurable and enjoyable, and it doesn't have to be this horrible experience of of coming home and and and landing the plane that you know.

Speaker 2: 7:07

That's sort of the language I would use, yeah, and I would like yeah, I'd like to add to what you're saying, like all of that, and also, you know, because I think there's sometimes things, um, I love that we said about intensity seekers. I read something recently that says ADHD is basically about intensity, and it was a beautiful way they broke it down. I can't recall right now, but it's so true, this draw towards intensity. You want to feel things. We're not here for the vanilla experience of life. And I also want to point out that Liv talked about flying around and all that kind of stuff. Sometimes the experiences might even be not physically going anywhere, right, it's kind of anything. I think that is like a rich, deep, nourishing, joyful experience. That's how it feels to me and my history of it I can't really recall, but it goes back a long, long way.

Speaker 2: 8:08

I definitely didn't have a value around, um, the idea of digestion or integration is another one, or just letting things land, um, and I don't remember when it started either, but at some point I just remember feeling really frustrated all the time, like something would happen, and then it felt like this process of digestion that I wasn't doing, I'd be kind of like I'd just be unable to function really at my optimum and I wouldn't know why, and I would find this so frustrating and just want to be able to do the next thing, and it was like why are you stopping me from doing the next thing? What's wrong? The idea of like what's wrong with me? There's nothing wrong, right, but it's like what's wrong and, um, this is getting in the way. It took a long time for me to understand that and realize that I actually had to, um, I had to kind of make space for this part of the process.

Speaker 2: 8:59

After I've done something I make. I live a. Really I love my life. I live in a fantastic life. I get to experience some really beautiful things. I also am somebody that finds a lot of joy in all sorts of shit. Right, sometimes they're just really basic, random shit, but it's like you said, it's the intensity, it's always kind of there and there is an aftermath of when I experience something that is um, big and wow, it needs to land. You know, let's maybe share some examples of maybe I don't know recent times where we've experienced something that we had to digest.

Speaker 1: 9:42

I want to name that. I love that you're bringing in the, the framing of like, how this doesn't have to be a big thing. I think about like a big trip, um, which I'll talk about in a second. The recent example for me um, it can, I mean, and it is just even your everyday, rich, nourishing, connected experiences um as well. That is, it exists all the time, um, and so it feels like you're, you're, you're holding that pole in a beautiful way and I think I'm going to learn some some. I think I'm going to really learn a lot from that as well. I'm excited about that, um.

Speaker 1: 10:27

So for me, a recent example is that I went on a two-week Caribbean cruise with my mum and my oldest bestie and her son, so there was like a little crew of us going, and when I get invited on any kind of trip or, you know, an opportunity that involves travel international travel or even local, to be honest comes onto my radar. I've kind of got a set of considerations that I really go through, and when I was off, when I was invited on this, this trip, I initially was like, oh, I'm really not sure if I am a yes to that. It wasn't like oh, my god, yeah, woohoo, cruise. Oh, my god, woo, caribbean, woo. It was like, oh shit, okay, this is an amazing opportunity to spend time with my mum, to do something that I've not really done before, to go to beautiful places, um, to take some real time off. You know, there's many tick, tick, ticks kind of coming in. I also was like, okay, I'm, I've done a lot of travel this year. It's right after Christmas.

Speaker 1: 11:41

A cruise is a confined space with a lot of people. Oh, I know it's gonna be very stimulating. Also, I'm gonna be completely offline and although my I haven't really been working that much, I'm gonna have to, you know, speak to my clients and just make sure that it's okay that I'm offline. I've never really been able to do that before in my business. And then I'm offline I've never really been able to do that before in my business. And then I'm thinking and I'm going to go completely offline and kind of in this. You know, cruising is like a very consumptive experience. There's a lot of fun, there's a lot of things happening. You're getting dressed up every night, you're meeting people, you're in the sun.

Speaker 1: 12:21

There's a lot of things about that that feel very, very different to like my cozy, dark winter that I was in, even just shifting to summer for two weeks. I was like I'm really gonna have to a adapt to being there. It's gonna take some time and energy and b like it's gonna probably write off January in terms of how much time this is really going to take me to recover and get back into my rhythm, because I was in a really nice rhythm. I was like loving wintering and so it wasn't just like oh, of course I got a. Previous me would have been like any opportunity to do something like that would be no questions asked. Now I do have questions and I really really account for the recovery time, especially international travel, especially a big trip, especially somewhere where I'm going to be very overstimulated and I'm not going to have much time for digestion on the trip because I'm going to be constantly.

Speaker 1: 13:18

I mean, we saw like eight different Caribbean islands in like or nine in like 14 days. That was a lot for me. There was so much amazing things happening. I was like this is almost too much goodness. I found it actually very hard to let it all in. Yeah, and now I'm more attuned to my sensitivity. I was like the ship's moving too, too fast. I can't. Oh, I'm still in St Lucia, like we're somewhere else, and so and I know that about myself, that I like to move quite slowly, um and so, anyway, this happened a few weeks ago. It's now the 31st of January and I am still recovering, and I it took me about three weeks to get up at a normal time and make a normal breakfast at the normal size that actually fills and nourishes me, like there's these small ways that it really takes me many, many, many, many weeks to recover from something like that. It doesn't make it bad, it just means you have to account for it and you will be very disrupted and it's it sounds like self-respect.

Speaker 2: 14:29

That's what it sounds like. You know, um, and as you're speaking, what I suppose what's coming to my mind is that not everyone needs this like this deep level of um digestion. I've noticed that, like, I've had clients that don't need so much. They experience stuff. So not all of us are experiencing basically, we're all experiencing life, digestion of life, at different paces, and that makes sense, right, because it's like our digestive system as well. Right, we have different digestive systems, so I feel like there's probably something about that. I know there's stuff in human design actually around digestion, and it is about everything, digestion of everything, and so I think there is probably some um connection. Why not? Because there is that whole micro, macro thing in life, right, and the kind of like how you do one thing is how you do everything kind of vibe about life. So it does make sense actually that if there may be clues in your actual digestive system, right, I don't know what the sciences or anything about that, but, um, yeah, I think, as I was listening to you speak, I was thinking, fuck, not fuck, it's actually a good thing, but my entire life is quite a lot for me to digest. Just generally, my work is a lot to digest when I'm, when I am doing workshops not so much, um, one-to-one sessions actually, but um, I really enjoy my work so much, it ticks so many of my boxes so that it lights me up all the time and, um, and I suppose my work actually is also kind of like to light people up as well. So there's all of this happening. It's like being a, it's like being a match and lighting lots of candles, which is great, um, and I need recovery time all the time. I wish I didn't and I have to really think about that when I'm scheduling things and my diary will often look like a lot of downtime, a lot of space, but it's because I know I need it and I know I'm going to pay for it if I don't. So, yeah, this a biggie. And then I think last year I've got some examples for me from last year, not work related, but um, when I did the 50th birthday party for my partner. Oh my god, did I need to digest that afterwards? It probably, I think in hindsight it took me about a month, I think something like that feels true.

Speaker 2: 17:02

Um, the first week was literally sheer hell on earth. So after the event. It's a great event. Everything's gone really, really well and and there was a lot of love. It just was kept getting higher and higher and higher and higher, and it's beautiful, right, but it was a lot, a hell of a lot. But it was a lot, a hell of a lot.

Speaker 2: 17:20

And I remember, like the next day, the day after the weekend, I was getting people. People were sending me like pictures right from the event and this is a bit of a clue for me. I've been down this road before where I've handled it wrong, where I've just carried on connecting with the event and carried on and looking at all the pictures and taking it all in, and I've blown like a fuse man and it takes me ages, even longer, to come back from that. So this time I was really good at not engaging. I kind of there was something I had to. I knew I knew don't, you haven't got the capacity to look at it right now, look at it later.

Speaker 2: 18:02

And the other, the other clue is, if I start to look, I start to see it all horribly. It's like it just horrible, it's all negative and I'm like, oh my god, why am I doing that face? Oh god, it looks so awful and that's a clue as well, of like, ah, okay, babes, just you know we talk a lot about, um, feeding the baby, bathing the baby and then putting the baby to bed as a kind of metaphor to remind ourselves just the day-to-day basics. Just do them and like it's a sort of healthy parenting vibe about that and that that's what that is. That's one of those moments of like okay, darling, you don't need to look at the pictures today, the pictures will be there next week or whenever. And the same pictures when you're ready and you're like I can handle this. Now. They look like oh, my god, these are lovely pictures. Why did like? A week ago I was like, oh, gross, hideous, I look hideous you know, so there's all these clues.

Speaker 2: 18:58

I think that we get given different ones right for yourself about the need to digest yeah, we're never too good for the basics you know, anytime.

Speaker 1: 19:07

I think that I don't need to treat myself like a little baby cub, that you know the wheels start coming off and I wonder why. But actually, you know it's a simple road map to grounding ourselves. After you know it's a simple roadmap to grounding ourselves after you know, often really good stuff's happened. I mean, this can be true if we're in some sort of a crisis that we're trying to recover from, and some events happened. Um, it was reminding me when I first started leading groups and I did my first ever group program.

Speaker 1: 19:38

I remember I I would like it was so nerve wracking and it was so sort of like such a big deal that I was, you know, working with a group of women.

Speaker 1: 19:48

I would come off the calls and I'd be so expanded and high from how like amazing it was and how much enjoyment I got out of it. Like amazing it was and how much enjoyment I got out of it and I couldn't believe that this was finally happening that I made this pact with myself and I was living in Lisbon at the time and I made this pact with myself and I kind of let everybody around me know that I wouldn't process what happened on the call until I had landed Because I knew, if I started to try and make sense of it, or maybe, you know, maybe something had happened and I needed some support with it. Or, you know, maybe something that you know was a learning moment and I was like, okay, I need to sort of unpack that. I could not do it until my feet were back on the ground and I was no longer in that very elevated, expanded state. If I tried to, I would spin out and I would feel so anxious and it would become a sort of mental masturbation looking for a problem.

Speaker 2: 20:56

Yes. Right, it's like too much, isn't it Too much? This is too much, isn't it? This is too much?

Speaker 1: 21:01

yeah, I'm not capable in that moment of right of healthily looking at something with, you know, goggles that are real. I'm looking at it through the lens of either like, oh my god, that was so amazing or like, oh my god, fucking horrendous.

Speaker 1: 21:15

What have I done? I'm a terrible monster. You. I'm completely and utterly unable to look at it with objective facts and that's not a productive thing to be doing. You're trying to make, you're trying to learn and grow from something. So I'm a big believer in, you know, steadily climbing down off the mountain and if the mountain was really big like my cruise, I was on the way home and was very ready to leave. By the last few days I felt like, okay, I've gone past my limit, I'm ready to go now. Two weeks is probably a bit too long. I've had a wonderful time and I want to go home now and just start my recovery process and integrating everything that I've learned about myself. And you know there was lots of inspiration.

Speaker 1: 22:03

Interestingly, I did start sort of you know we've talked on the pod before about the energy of wintering versus summering as a verb and I felt like I was so high and expanded when I got back that I would sort of try to stay in the energy of summering when I actually needed to transition back to wintering.

Speaker 1: 22:26

And one week later, there I am at the monkey bars and I snapped my ankle very severely and had this like literal hard stop and it was so, uh, interesting because my mind went to yep, okay, back to wintering, I clearly needed that and it. There was not much resistance to the, the adjustment, because I felt like I actually probably need to be at home. I've got a lot to integrate. Although I'm in a lot of pain and I probably could have done with the lesson in a more gentle way, it actually had me feel back in alignment again, which is what I'm looking for when I'm integrating an experience. Is it bringing me closer to alignment or further away? Further away would look like I've got my next holiday and I'm going next week yes, oh, so much, goodness.

Speaker 2: 23:27

I have a question actually, um, from what you were saying, like, how do you know? What are some of the ways that you know when you are back? So the word, the word that's going on in my mind is range, right, so we maybe have come a little bit too far out of our own range, which is okay, but we want to, and that needs to be integrated, because, okay, this is how I see it, it's like our comfort zone. Let's say, we've got a zone of comfort and then we kind of, in order to stretch that zone, make it bigger, we operate in outside of it a little bit and it's a bit uncomfortable. And the further we get away from our comfort zone, the more uncomfortable it becomes. It's like a discomfort zone.

Speaker 2: 24:12

So, um, sometimes, when we have a big experience, um, it might be that we're just a little bit too far away from our comfort zone or too far in the discomfort zone, but it is also part of the process of the comfort zone growing, if that makes sense. So how do you know? And this is how we grow our capacity? I mean, this is, this is what we all fucking need. This is so important, right, this is life's work, everything. Um, how do you know when you are in that? Because you said back in the line. Then how do you know? Because I kind of imagine the comfort zone has grown a little bit bigger and things are stabilizing a bit. But what are some of the ways that you know?

Speaker 1: 24:57

so the first thing that jumps to me is that when I'm in the expanded zone, I'm sort of in the realm of possibility and what could be, and I feel very sort of open to a bigger perspective, um, a wider range, to use the language you just brought in. When I'm, when I'm back in alignment for me, that I'm back in this present moment with myself and how I tend to know, is I, as I orient myself to this moment, I have sort of have a healthy perspective, and that perspective is quite neutral. It's not like wanting to be where I was or desperate to be somewhere in the future. You know, I'm like, okay, here and here feels good. I'm not trying to avoid being here, this feels like.

Speaker 1: 25:58

It's like they say, um, you know, no big decisions when you're coming down off the mountain, but when we're coming down off the mountain, we are sort of thinking about all that could change in our life, and I think that's the beauty of expanding our horizons with a powerful conversation or with, um, a big trip where we saw the world, or we met somebody, and we're like, wow, okay, that really showed me what could be possible in my life.

Speaker 1: 26:23

Well, that's great, you've been shown what's possible and you feel possibility, but you actually do need to make change in your life. And do you do that from a place of urgency and rushing or do you do that from a place of my feet are on the ground? Feed baby, bath the baby, put the baby to bed. Healthy action, you know a lot of our day, in order to sustain ourselves, needs to be feed the baby, bath the baby, put the baby to bed, types of behaviors. If we're not doing any of those, then we're going to have a really hard time growing, because we're going to be trying to fucking survive.

Speaker 1: 27:00

So a lot of our time needs to be spent doing that. I think we need to do it more when we're trying to digest, because we're trying to ground ourselves, and then it leaves some space to start thinking about okay, well, that that stayed with me, that, um, you know, maybe you met, meet somebody and they say something to you and it sort of pierces you and you think, oh, wow, you know, I can't stop thinking about that. I'm going to follow that. I'm going to sort of explore that in my everyday life because that stayed with me yes, I love that beautifully put.

Speaker 2: 27:40

You know, that, bath the baby, feed the baby, bath the baby, put the baby to bed, you said has to be. It's true, it is most of our lives. But when we're intensity seekers it's like, oh, you know, and I get that and listen, for many years I completely neglected that part of my life, right? And I think for many years you probably can get away with that until the follies come knocking and then it all catches up with you. But, um, yeah, it's true.

Speaker 2: 28:10

And then so I think there's something about how you find joy in the mundane, because that's what it is. It's kind of mundane, isn't it? So it's like how, how do you find joy in the mundane? Because it, yeah, if that's a struggle for you and I also think, to add to what you said is like when you're doing that, a whole heap of stuff's going to come up for you. Whatever's behind your restlessness is going to come up and show itself to you. And that's the work. The work is to work through that, you know, and that takes time to do it properly, um, and you know what it is and what is to do it properly, olivia, it is to digest it yeah that's the irony.

Speaker 2: 28:52

It isn't to bypass it, it isn't to affirmation it away, right, it isn't to I'm a, you know, whatever. It's not, it's not any of this kind of willpowery type shit. It's actually to let the motherfucker process and digest inside of you, which often means coming um, coming face to face and feeling some of the uncomfortable emotions that you don't want to feel. But they need to compost, they need to digest.

Speaker 1: 29:20

Yeah, nice yeah, yeah, exactly, composting and composting because we love a nature analogy on the pod like composting, um, alchemy, isn't it? Yes, it is a process of alchemy and it's like bringing everything to the compost heap. Are we willing to just put it on the heap and just sort of let life, the process of life, do its thing, versus, oh, my god, I went on this retreat and I need to change everything. I need to leave my husband, I need to go out my life, leave my career, and then suddenly you've just, you've just ran away from everything that was uncomfortable. I'm not saying sometimes you don't need to leave a relationship or a job, but often it's being done from this urgent place of I can't be with the reality I'm in. I need to escape the reality I'm in, but you're not actually letting life do its thing. So you're probably gonna recreate that again until you're just gonna keep finding it in different ways because it's you that can't be, with the part of you that, whatever it is that's choosing this thing like it's a sort of self. Um, you know, I'll share a personal example for myself. Um, you know, you mentioned restlessness and I think that's something that I can deeply relate to and I know probably many people can when I moved to Paris for those of you that don't know my story, I moved to Paris in the middle of the pandemic and it was a sort of very weird time to leave.

Speaker 1: 30:53

But there was sort of some pressures, like there was Brexit, so the UK were leaving the EU. This opportunity presented itself and I was finally in a good place to make the leap. I had savings, my business was in a good place, I'd really cleaned stuff up, so I was kind of like raring to go. My perception at that time was I was ready to make a leap like that. But actually making a leap like that put so much pressure on me that I spent the next few years really recovering from the pressure of making a decision that quickly to move countries as a business owner. I'd only just found stability and then I was just willing to create instability again in my life, and that's my pattern. I've done that.

Speaker 1: 31:41

But the beauty of that decision meant that I was in a pandemic in a new city in an apartment alone and I had to face myself. I had to face the part of me that was always running away, that was always traveling and that was neglecting my health. So I had a bunch of um. You know, I discovered that I had a restrictive eating disorder and I had to face that.

Speaker 1: 32:05

You know, it was a quite severe addiction to literally starving myself and I had to look at my workaholism right where I was using my workaholism, right where I was using my work to save me and I was. You know, I chose a very intense compost heap to do that in. I was like in a foreign country, away from my support system and family, and like in the pandemic, which was a horrible time. And so you know, like now I've come back home and I'm in a different phase of that alchemy, I can see the part of me that thought that I was probably going to get away with not having to face that. But I wasn't, I had to and I did, I surrendered have you seen that meme that's going around at the moment?

Speaker 2: 32:57

I love it. So you know, like, when they have like I mean I always use the word means everything. So I don't know if it is a meme, it might be a real, who knows. But um, it's um running.

Speaker 2: 33:07

There's one person running and then there's another person running after them and then they just keep getting faster and faster and faster. It just cracks me up because, um, that's what I'm kind of seeing when you, when you're speaking, it's that kind of you could have a meme. That's like the one in the front is like running away from digesting her life basically because that's what it is really, isn't it digesting your own goddamn life? And then this person chasing you, which is like the thing that will always catch up with you, no matter how fast you run. It's gonna fucking run with you, know, I mean? And so, yeah, it makes me laugh because we've all been there I want the instant results.

Speaker 1: 33:49

I think there's a part of me that was like I'm gonna have the ready-made life in paris. It's gonna be fucking fabulous and it's gonna be you know, the trimmings of an amazing life, but it's just not that at all. You know, I had to fucking work for that and it was grim and I nearly left many times and I was like what the hell am I doing? And eventually, you know, there was tons of beauty in the form of relationships and people and experiences and like what an amazing thing to go and do and it cost me a lot. It cost me a lot financially, physically, just so many things. That decision cost me. Things that decision cost me. And now I am recovering from that expense, right, I am digesting, living abroad for four years and everything that came with yeah, yeah, god, so many things in my mind I'm gonna go this one.

Speaker 2: 34:49

So an experience, a recent experience I had in december and some really a couple of, really more than a couple, but two really stand out really beautiful experiences like so aligned, so much fun, but by jove, did I still need to really digest them afterwards, right? And the first one was I went with an old friend to a comedy show. I love my comedy and it was like a comedy charity night. And then, um, there was, we went really for Michelle DeSwalt, and then Nish Kumar was also there and I'm a big fan of him, and so I was like, yeah, cool, I'd had like a work thing all day and it wasn't very satisfying. Sometimes my work is not satisfying because that's just the nature of systemic work and it was nice to go and just do something completely different, have a right old giggle with an old friend who's like a sister, and yeah, it was beautiful and brilliant. So we had a great time, a really great time. And then at the end and she's a massive michelle de swart fan like proper fangirling and at the so we were outside at the end waiting for two of our friends and then she said to me I think that's nish, I think that's nish, no, and I was like there, she's like there. And so we went up and it was, it was nish. We went up and spoke to him and I was just like, oh my god, I'm speaking to nish kumar, I love, and his set was incredible, like it was so bloody brilliant, you know, um really fired us up. He's really a man after my own heart, you know, a little disruptive, and so, and as I'm speaking to him, michelle comes out and so I'm like, oh my god, my friend's gonna die. So I said to her like my friend loves you, like I mean, that's literally what I said. I was like, oh my god, michelle, my friend loves you, you have to meet her.

Speaker 2: 36:36

And then we had the most wonderful conversation with Michelle, like she was an old friend, like she was just so lovely. And then she really, like, she dropped on us that, like she said, I'm really happy that you're here. We don't know her, by the way, yeah, but she said I'm really happy that you're here, like it, something like like this is why I don't remember the exact words yeah, but this is why I do this, this comedy or something it's for, like you know, because she kind of speaks to our demographic young black south londoners of a certain era right and um was like it means the world that you've come, and it was just so beautiful. We were like, oh my God, I'm not expecting this and we were just having like a chat like old schoolmates and stuff like that, and it was just we were buzzing. And so after that we went off and went to a little secret bar and just were buzzing, buzzing for hours until we got thrown out.

Speaker 2: 37:30

But it was just such a rewarding night and when I got home I remember just being like, oh my god, like we. It was just my heart was so full, it was and that needed digesting. You know, I was excited. I was in a place of excitement and highs and ups for days after um and I remember wanting to move on. There were times I was like I need to do some stuff now, like I need to move on from this. I need to do you know, um. It was the beginning of December. You know how we feel in that time. It's like we're all just limping towards the Christmas break. But it still needed digesting. It was incredible. It was a you, what it was. It was a really genuine high, like a really genuine meaningful to us experience and absolutely fantastic. And then, about a week later it wasn't that long after yeah, I went to like an intimate brunch for mothers of kids with extra needs.

Speaker 2: 38:33

And there's an account I follow online called Raising Kevin and it's run by a lady called Tola and her son, kevin is autistic. And the first time I remember, the first time I saw this page, I was just like, oh my god, I feel like I can relate to this because that's just, you know, when it comes to parenting things, I'm often like no, nothing to do with me, not my experience, low-key, invalidated and um, yeah, that's what it is. But something about their, their page. It's like I can, there's something very relatable about, like their relationship reminds me of mine and my son's relationship and just all sorts of stuff. It's just really familiar. Anyway, it was her and so Tola, and then another lady called Tiwa King ran it and it was called Breathe and Bond and it was for mothers of kids of extra needs like myself, who, acknowledging the fact that it's quite stressful our lives are stressful and a place to come and bond with other mothers in the same position as you and breathe right. Very simply, very simply simple structure, beautifully held, exquisitely held, and it was incredible. So this is coming in a week after the experience with my other friend and I didn't know what to expect and I what I don't know, it was just a whole nother level to be met, to be understood, to not have to.

Speaker 2: 40:07

I often don't speak about my experiences because I can't be bothered to explain things to. I often don't speak about my experiences because I can't be bothered to explain things to people like I'm just really it's a lot for me and so I'm not going to do that if I don't have to do that. And it was so nice to be with other people and we laughed and we cried and and it's something special about mothers actually like us right, there's a, there's a tenderness, and a lot, of, a lot of people in the room were, um, nigerian. Yeah, I think I feel like most of the women, of Nigerian or African descent. There was some people from Caribbean descent and there was also some Asian and Middle Eastern people in there, so it was very much.

Speaker 2: 40:49

It wasn't. I don't think it was intentional to be that way, but that's just what it was and and there's something about all of these cultures that understand we understand each other in the London thing and they were like mothers like me, like we're fierce, and it's like we're fierce and just as fierce as we're, just as tender as we are fierce. So this range is exquisite. Oh my god, it was so incredible to be in a room yeah, I don't need to be the only one like that in a room.

Speaker 2: 41:21

You know, it was amazing, the feeling it reminded me of, like um, madagascar I often have this feeling madagascar, the cartoon, when they all the animals are in a new york zoo, like there's one lion, one zebra, one hippo, etc. And then they get to africa, somehow, they get to madagascar. And, um, then there's other right, there's this moment where the the zebra, marty I think his name is played by Chris Rock is just running with all the other zebras, you know, and it's just like, oh my God, and it was that kind of feeling of like oh, the other zebras.

Speaker 2: 42:03

Best feeling, like I've never felt that feeling before. Yeah, we're not talking about just parents or just da-da-da-da-da. It's like, oh, it's not quite fierce, tender, because this experience will tenderize you like a motherfucker Do you know what I mean and also make you find strength in you, like you didn't even know you had Right, and also put a certain amount of stress on you that you will never have experienced before either. A lot of extreme intensities going on here. You know, surprise, surprise, um. But again, when I came back from there, I remember just being like, okay, literally I feel like a rocket that's just gonna go off into space. Like, okay, I can't, I can't take anymore.

Speaker 1: 42:41

Like, just, it was, it was a lot to digest and that the bit that is hard for me is that first week after the thing, oh, it hurts it hurts yeah no, I really hear it's like a really deep appreciation of like when your values something's really lining up with what you value and you're really having an experience that's like so in line with who you are and how you want to be spending your time. Like that real goodness that comes from like this is it? Oh my god, I'm experiencing this like it's a very particular kind of high and it can be quite hard to come down from. Like what do you do with that like? Oh my god, I'm like I'm actually having the thing and I hear so much appreciation, like the energy of appreciation, the frequency of appreciation where it's just like, oh, I'm so grateful, like I don't need to hold on to that part of me might want to like that was amazing, but just like I am so blessed that I got to feel something that aligned and like that, um, it was so nourishing.

Speaker 1: 43:51

I obviously, you know I got to interact with you after that. I remember that like I was sat there thinking I I can want more for you. You know, like that feeling to find your people, like really find your people en masse. You know not just one, but like a group of women that you relate to. You know the zebras has such a beautiful analogy of just like the joy finding each other. There's nothing, I don't think there's anything better than that.

Speaker 2: 44:17

No, I don't think there is and blessed is the word, and actually it's like. You know, I'm somebody that's been putting in a lot of work for a long time, right? So some of the stuff I'm experiencing these days is just as a result of going through not feeling blessed for long periods of time too right, composting, digesting, diving deep, bloody hell, you know it was a lot it was a lot.

Speaker 2: 44:44

My truth is joy. My at my core is joy, but my conditioning was a shit ton of struggle, babe. Yeah, a shit ton, and it's just not actually my nature. It's not, it's not in my truest nature at all. However, yeah, I'm resilient, you know I've learned a lot from the struggle, but I haven't set up shop and lived there and it's been a lot to step out of the that conditioning for sure, and so to be it's huge.

Speaker 2: 45:15

But I will say in a nutshell that the reason that I am finding my people, the reason why I'm finding my communities and just really enjoy the friends I have got, incredible, incredible friends in my world like, seriously blessed is the fucking word right, I listen to jill scott blessed most days.

Speaker 2: 45:43

Because, because it's just like I feel blessed, and but the reason is for that is because I've been, I had to get really honest with myself at certain parts in my journey about certain things that were not in my real, genuine opinion community, you know, that were not connection, they were not relationship. They might call themselves it and it might have the standard, might have also been very acceptable for other people, but we're talking about my life, my needs, right, and so there's a chunk of absence. You know it's a chunk of saying no to certain things and not having the yeses yet or ever knowing if they're going to come. Because I can't, I could never imagine any of this stuff, I didn't have the imagination to imagine it. But they, they, they do. I know they do not just in my life, in my clients lives, I've seen it over and over. They do, they do.

Speaker 1: 46:48

I want to share something here that might need some help, sort of like landing it. But, um, because we're talking, obviously, a lot about the just seeing the good and I think it does deserve this amount of airtime because I think that things going well and good stuff can be actually more uncomfortable and triggering for some people and us. Then things not going well especially if we're conditioned for things to go wrong and to struggle like things being shit, like if you're used to that, you're like, well, this is just how it is, isn't it? Um, and things going well can be more alarming, right, actually having good stuff happen. But I want to kind of say that one of the beliefs I hold is that life is like 50 shit, 50 great, and like we don't get away with. There's not some button we press and we get some elevated state where we're evolved past things not being good. Right, all of this that you're describing sits in, you know, in a previous episode we were talking about you know how shit the world is right now and how hard that is and what that brings up, and like that can be happening, and deep personal joy and experiences that are like otherworldly and life-changing can be happening at the same time. That's nuanced, that's like being with the complexity of life. I want to name that. We often make things going well or things being good or not good means something about our inherent value and worth, and so I just want to name that, that um, you know, if you, if, if for you, you're digesting something happening that's really shit, fucking hard right, like um.

Speaker 1: 48:37

I guess an example could be um, a breakup or somebody just boasting you. It's happened to me a lot. I've had loads of experiences like this. My initial feeling when I'm not yet off the mountain is oh no, I did something wrong. Uh, it's me. Oh, my god, I, I'm ugly or I'm a terrible person, or I shouldn't have said that one thing. And then, when I've actually spent some time digesting the hurt, you know the bond that's now broken because that person's left my life and I'm sort of back on the ground. I'm like, oh, okay, cool, you know that person, clearly not available for the thing I'm available for, wasn't a good match. Would have loved that to have been handled differently. And I can now start digesting the relationship I have with that person. I can start digesting the experience versus focusing on the fact that they've disappeared and left me and it's, and I'm just in my feelings great point yeah yes, so, yeah, gone now.

Speaker 2: 49:44

I was just gonna say I think we get stuck when we don't digest and we don't even realize there's a lot of activity but we're stuck, we're not moving anywhere, there's no progress, there's no evolution, because you're not doing a part of very important part of the cycle. You know, um, I don't know what cycle. It is some kind of life cycle, right of something happened. I don't know something happened. We let it land, digest, rest. Um, yeah, I don't know if something new starts, but I feel like we must have said this. I don't know, I never know really what we've said on the pod and where, where else we've said stuff. But, um, I agree with you, I really do. I agree with I think. I think it's just life really, and I think it's also capacity. So what I heard you say was people like us, because of our conditioning, tend to have a good capacity for struggle. That's what the resilience is. That's what the anyone who's kind of been through a lot and it's not taken them out, it's got a resilience about them, right. And by resilience I know that some people hear that as something what I mean by resilience is like a bounce back. I like the word resilience. I don't use it as a rhino skin kind of thing, not as like nothing hurts us and we just power through everything, like no, for me, resilience is you kind of take some knocks and you bounce back right. It's almost like there's this Chinese no Japanese joinery called Kintsugi, where it's like the pottery, I think it's. When pottery breaks, it's really beautiful pottery, and when it breaks, what they do is they don't throw it away, they fix it, but they the glue that they used to fix it is gold, and so it ends up even being more beautiful than before, and I really believe that. I really do believe that things that have broken and come back together are actually more beautiful than the thing that was intact in the first place, right? So, um, yeah, I think it's life, and so I think some of us have got more of a capacity for struggle. So our work, then, is to build the capacity for joy. Right, some of us have got a huge capacity for joy, you know, and delight and stuff like that, and then an optimism. Their work is to increase their capacity for the, for sadness or you know something like that. So, and all of it is because all of it is just a part of life.

Speaker 2: 52:32

Um, I want to read this story because this is like it's really short story. Um, some of you would have heard it before. It's a dao, it's a daoist parable, and it's really beautiful. It's at the heart of so many things. It's beautiful, but anyway, I've just found it online. So it goes like this about this farmer.

Speaker 2: 52:58

So story goes that an old farmer's stallion wins a prize at the country show. His neighbour comes by to congratulate him. He's like oh, great news, your horse won at the show. And the old farmer just says who knows what is good and what's bad? The next day, the horse the farmer's horse runs away. His neighbour comes over when he hears of this to commiserate. He's like oh, I'm so sorry you lost your horse. There's such bad news. And the farmer says well, who knows what is good and what's bad? The following day, the farmer's horse returns to the stable, but this time it's brought along with it a whole load of wild horses that it's befriended. The neighbor is like, oh, my god, what luck. You know comes over to congratulate him. Such great news, you've got all these horses. But the farmer says who knows what's good and what's bad?

Speaker 2: 53:56

The next day, the farmer's son decides to ride one of the wild horses, to break it in, and gets thrown from the horse and ends up breaking his leg. When he hears this news, the neighbour comes over to offer his condolences. Oh man, that's such a sad thing. The son's broken his leg and the farmer says well, who knows what's good and what's bad? The following day, soldiers come by with an army and they forcibly take the sons from the villages and the surrounding farms. But because the farmer's son's got a broken leg, he can't go and was spared. The neighbor hurried over again and says not learning his lesson, by the way, you're so lucky. That's wonderful news. And the farmer replied who knows what is good and what is bad? And I love that story, can never hear it enough and I have that in my mind a lot.

Speaker 2: 54:53

Who knows what's good and what's bad? Because there is something about that. Right, there is some perspective at play and also an acknowledgement of we have been given a perspective. We've been given because we're not even acting from neutral we're given a perspective this is good and that is bad. It's a binary way of thinking. I think it was either this episode or the last one we mentioned about binary, something about binary um and the danger actually of binary thinking. I mean, there's a place for it and we all do it, um, but in my work, binary thinking sits along a wounded element of us because it's not dealing. Life isn't absolute. You know, we act as if life's absolute, but it's actually full of complexity and nuance. So, hey, how about we just get on board with learning how to be with this, as opposed to trying to shrink things to our limits, limited understanding or something. So that's what comes to mind.

Speaker 1: 55:54

It's a great story. I love that one. I've heard it before in different contexts and I think it's perfect. I think it sits perfectly here because it's like you don't know. You know the the um example I was sharing about. You know somebody ghosts and like leaves your life. You know that I mean. This happened to me so many times and, quite frankly, I'm so grateful. Sometimes the trash takes itself out sometimes the trash takes itself out. I'm like, oh great.

Speaker 2: 56:25

And I think it's communication as well. It's a communication.

Speaker 1: 56:28

No, communication is communication yeah, you're like okay, cool, and you know it's that reminder that we're not in control of other people. They will do what they want to do, like there are really very few guarantees and this, you know, I've never not been grateful for a redirect in my life or a refocusing back to myself because of a set of circumstances that have happened that have been unfavorable. I've experienced things that have been not great, you know, awful. When I think of, like one thing I wanted to name is to kind of bring this all the way back to what we said in the beginning. Like when we're digesting and integrating, we need to make space for emerging needs. We need to make space for emerging needs.

Speaker 1: 57:26

So I think there are, you know, for me there are tried and tested things. So I know for me that when I'm at rhythm, my food and sleep can get really affected and if one gets affected, the other one gets affected and I can spiral quite quickly if my food and sleep, I can't sleep or I can't eat, and it's usually because I'm stressed, because something's happened. That is something I really need to watch and I know that. I know that about myself, that for me that's a big trigger. So I have to really pay attention and I have grace and compassion that I can't force my body to do things it doesn't want to do. So if I'm too stressed to eat and I can't sleep, then I can't sleep and I can't eat. But I know that I can be loving and compassionate and hold space for my body and hold space for myself and hold space for my body's emerging needs. That might be different in a period of integration and digestion than it would be on a regular basis. So I mentioned earlier that today.

Speaker 1: 58:23

You know what I'm three weeks back and I had the big trip plus the ankle, so I've been dependent on other people to feed me. I've been, um, in a bit of a depressive slump on some days. I've been finding it really hard to get up in the morning. My food has been all over the place and I've just had to embrace it because I know that, very slowly, I'm finding my way back to my rhythm and I have. I can't force it. It's, it's annoying because I want it to be easier, but I know for me that I will find my way back. I always do, and it's about being patient. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:00

I love that we you will always find your way back yeah it's like that current thing.

Speaker 2: 59:06

Yes, it sounds like what you're saying is about sort of regulation and dysregulation, right? So it's kind of like noticing the clues when we're feeling dysregulated and, um, and then also the clues when you're feeling regulated. So I think I asked you earlier, didn't I, about how do you know? And I think it's that really, the question really is how do you know when you're regulated and how do you know when you're dysregulated? And realizing that we are going to do both. Right, we are.

Speaker 2: 59:33

We don't use this information to because it's not normal or natural to stay, to live in a constant state of regulation. That's not a fucking thing. Right, again, capacity for life that's noble. Wanker bullshit is what that is. We need some amount of challenge in life. It's just natural, it's just part of it, it's just life. So, um, it's like good, stress and that kind of thing. But, um, oh, I keep losing my train of thought. And you know what else keeps happening for me. I keep once your jumper that you're wearing. I keep thinking like it looks like you knitted it yourself did you well?

Speaker 1: 1:00:14

shout out to my girl, kate Brenchley. She knitted it for me.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

Oh, isn't it gorgeous and I feel like a knitted, a home knitted. I don't know why I'm asking if you've knitted it. I don't even know if there's a knitter. I feel like you're wearing a knitted thing.

Speaker 1: 1:00:31

Yeah, I've never knitted in my life. But my gorgeous dear friend, kate, who's also been a really beautiful ride or die client of mine, a really beautiful ride, or die client of mine, who we have this um, we've had this like uncannily simultaneous journey. She's also been on a spackle and she's a great digester. So shout out to kate and she is so talented and she made this beautiful custom uh, custom jumper and I haven't taken it off in the last two weeks. It's a daily. I wear it, I love it, I love it. So thank you for noticing and just appreciation for my people. My people are so caring.

Speaker 1: 1:01:12

Um, you know, I think when we know we're digesting something or we have needs, we can let people know what those might be and we can kind of say you know that example I used earlier um about when I used to hold group sessions and I remember saying to my partner at the time like I'm available for sex. That's a great digestion activity for me. I'm available for food, not really available for deep conversation, and I'm going to probably need a couple of days. And he was like, okay, great, and it might be nice if you were like out for the evening, just like letting people know I'm going to need a bit of space, I'm going to be a little dysregulated after this um, I'm going to probably be really hungry. I might want to have some physical contact, but maybe not like a lot of intellectual connection and just kind of like letting people know what you might or might not be available for can be really helpful.

Speaker 1: 1:02:08

Otherwise, we can clash with other people's needs who aren't, who aren't sensitively needing to digest something and, like you said so beautifully, we're all so different, like you and I, I think really well, you know, we, we're both writers, we're podcasters, we like to digest verbally, we process a lot, we need it, we know we need it, and I think that's been like. Why we've had such a rich friendship is we have very similar ways of processing together. Other people aren't like that and it's true. You know it's about kind of knowing your blueprint of how, what works best for you yeah, because there's different.

Speaker 2: 1:02:49

Yeah, it is. It's that it's getting curious. You'll have some ways that you digest at the moment. Some will be better than others. Some will be serving you, some won't be like even to be fair, I think even you know going out and getting off your face yeah drunk is a form of digestion, you know, oh yeah. So there's, yeah, there's a, but it's maybe not the most useful one, that's all but they recover from it like it's recovering from the recovery.

Speaker 2: 1:03:16

Yeah, yes, but it's uh finding out what your ways are. Movement music you know good conversation going out, a complete scene change. Laughter. I love comedy. I think probably for that reason a good laugh really does me good, you know, a bath you know, and how I know I'm back. For me, it's like I, I get insight, my insights come back. There's something about I'm back. For me, it's like I, I get insight, my insights come back. There's something about I'm like oh, ideas are coming back, but like get curious about your ways.

Speaker 2: 1:03:48

A bit of trial and error.

Speaker 1: 1:03:51

Yeah, how do you best recover and and what does that look like? And it's okay if you need, if you take a holiday and you need a recovery from the holiday, that's really quite normal. I think we judge it Like if you take a holiday and you need a recovery from the holiday, that's really quite normal. I think we judge it like we're sort of supposed to go away and disrupt our entire routine and then feel completely refreshed upon arrival home. Well, no, it's stressful. Traveling and transitioning back like it requires a lot of effort, energy, um and attention in the right places to do that smoothly. And, uh, it's okay if it takes you the time it takes to get back on your feet.

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

Yeah, give yourself some grace. People take your time with this one. Enjoy it digest this and we'll see you back in the same place soon. Sending you lots of love bye friends.