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Juicy! The Podcast
Introducing Juicy! - A vibrant podcast brought to you by Lola Fayemi and Olivia Lara Owen.
Lola and Olivia bring their unique perspectives and infectious energy to each episode of this podcast, inviting you to join them on a journey of personal exploration and transformation.
EVERYONE has their own juice, their own special essence and unique way of living that is authentic to them. With their insightful storytelling and thought-provoking insights, they'll guide you toward embracing your true passions and desires, encouraging you to infuse more of your own juice into every aspect of your life.
Expect captivating discussions that explore a wide range of exciting topics, adding zest and aliveness to your everyday life. From deep dives into personal growth and self-discovery to engaging conversations about relationships, career success and overall well-being, Juicy! is here to stimulate, inspire and empower you to lead your most fulfilling life.
It's time to quench your thirst for a vibrant, juicy life!
Juicy! The Podcast
Ep. 12: Building a Life on Soil vs Sand: Overcoming Societal Pressures for a Fulfilling Life
What happens when you build your life on sand instead of soil?
In our latest episode, we unravel this compelling metaphor and its implications for your relationships, health, and finances. Olivia shares her journey of feeling nourished and settled after her first summer back in the UK, while Lola celebrates finally experiencing a proper summer after years on hold. We promise that by the end of this episode, you'll have a new perspective on how to cultivate strong foundations for lasting success.
We dive into the urgency culture that tempts us to build on unstable foundations, driven by external validation and societal pressures. Lola recounts her journey of reconnecting with Reiki, an energy healing practice, and how it has enriched her coaching and personal growth. Lola and Olivia reflect on the illusions shattered by early disillusionments and family upheavals, and how these experiences force a reassessment of what truly matters. We discuss the importance of authenticity over conformity, and the ongoing journey of self-improvement, especially for marginalized groups navigating complex health landscapes.
Our conversation also examines the intricacies of relationships, both romantic and professional, comparing them to the quality of soil. From the societal pressure to idolize seemingly perfect relationships to the importance of genuine connections in business, we highlight the value of authenticity and integrity. We delve into the fears of raising children with values that differ from societal norms and the necessity of living authentically to inspire others. Whether you're looking to build a successful business or cultivate fertile ground for future growth, this episode offers rich insights into living a fulfilling and resilient life.
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Lola @lola.fayemi
Hello everyone, welcome back to the Juicy podcast. It is Liv starting us off today.
Speaker 2:Hello, and Lola's here obviously as well.
Speaker 1:We are absolutely jazzed buzzing, frothing, all the things to be back here in the recording suite. It is early September and we've had a nice little pause over the summer and there's just juice flowing. We're ready. Yes, yes, let's go. So we hope you're all doing really, really well. Hello to all our juicy listeners, and we're going to bring in a topic today, throwing it into the room building success built on sand versus soil.
Speaker 2:Sand versus soil. Actually, before we go into that, should we have a little check-in.
Speaker 2:Yeah definitely, I know. So we're not great starters. In case you haven't been able to tell, Starting is almost just a bit like for us. We're a bit like bear with get over this and then we're good, great starters. In case you haven't been able to tell, starting is almost just a bit like for us. We're a bit like bear with get over this and then we're good, okay. So how you doing, Liv? What's going on in your world that you'd like to share?
Speaker 1:I'm doing really really well. I'm doing really really well. It's uh, yeah, I've had a really great couple of days, that kind of feeling of landing after the heat of the summer, of the busyness of the summer, lots of yeah I, I I've just finished my first season back in the UK. I've done like a full season of summer. I've kind of spring into summer. I've experienced like the beginning season back in the UK. I've done like a full season of summer. I've kind of spring into summer. I've experienced like the beginning, the middle and the end. And now we're coming into a different season and I'm feeling that, feeling the shifts and the changes into autumn. It was starting to get colder, colder weather here in the UK.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my spirit's feeling really nourished, I think I'm feeling a little bit more settled. I'm definitely still in a transitionary mode where you know, one life is leaving, another one is emerging, um, and I feel I'm feeling I'm feeling blessed. I feel like there's just been so many beautiful rewards and gifts from some of the choices I've made. And, yeah, these last couple of days have just been sat like sort of my harvest this year is wisdom. I'm harvesting the wisdom of this time. So, yeah, buzzing happy to be here, so grateful for you for this project and excited to talk today and explore this, explore myself and you and us and yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm doing great yeah.
Speaker 1:what about you?
Speaker 2:Good to hear babes, really good to hear. Yeah, I'm doing really well too. I'm super all over the place, bearing in mind that it just took me about a minute to figure out how to mute. I was looking for something that said mute and I was like, oh my god, I've changed it, where's it gone? And then I remembered so that's kind of where I'm at. I'm in this place of like, oh, I've got no short-term memory at all now, but, um, but I've had a gorgeous summer, really gorgeous summer for the first.
Speaker 2:I haven't really had a proper summer for a couple of years, maybe more, because, um, I've just felt kind of on hold. A lot has been going on in my world, as you know, and, um, I'm not one to force it, you know what I mean like, obviously, summer has been and gone in previous years, but I just wasn't in the mood to really do anything with it. And this year I felt like I summered again. Like the verb summer is a verb. I summered and it was beautiful. Yeah, I loved it, loved it, loved it. And you know what it was worth? The fucking weight Really was. You know, I'm trying to stay on track, because already I've wanted to go off about three times. It was something else. Yeah, just excited. I'm actually very excited, I'm very excited. So I'm a bit like a terrier, just kind of got that kind of terrier energy inside, very creative, very sparky. So probably you're going to probably get a burnout episode again, guys, soon at this rate. But hey, riding the wave, enjoying it love that love, the verb of summer.
Speaker 1:I've summered yeah, have you summered listeners, have you been summering?
Speaker 2:or has it been a? Has it been a pause year, like I've had the last few years, and that's okay. If it is, it's worth the wait it's worth the wait. Yeah, I love that. So what did we say? It was again today sand and soil. So you said the language you used there. You said building success on sand or soil. Is that what you said?
Speaker 1:yeah, success built on sand versus soil.
Speaker 2:And I've been percolating, we've been talking about this a lot and we talk about this kind of thing a lot anyway, and this morning, when I was on my walk and I was talking to Laz about the upcoming pod today, I was saying to him about building on sand or building on soil. So something for me about everything life, relationships, um, health, like absolutely everything, finances, you name it. You know, I think you've always got an option to build on sand or build on soil. So let's not assume anyone knows what we're talking about. Maybe, first of all, why don't we talk about what we mean by building what it is? What do we mean by building on sand and what do we mean by building on soil? Like, what's the difference between building on sand and soil? That was a question for you, liv.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just writing something down. So the first thing that I think is the difference is sand to me is Sand is not a great foundation, it's not really got. Sand to me is Sand is not a great foundation. It's not really got. Can't really grow anything on sand. Really, To me, sand is something that can get washed away.
Speaker 1:I think of it like Building on sand is a way to build on the illusion of something, but it's not really got. Like your roots in the ground, steady, you're being held up by something real, like when shit hits the fan or when there's really something you need to show something of substance. On sand there's not really anything going on underneath or behind the scenes. And I would say on soil.
Speaker 1:Soil to me is something that is more real, sturdy, connected to nature. It's like soil is something that is underneath us all the time that we need to take care of it. And if our soil isn't in good shape, as we've talked about in the pod before we did a big old conversation on this, probably like coming up a year ago talked about this Soil to me is like layers and nutritious and it's holding you up and your roots are just in there and they're getting like fed and watered and and and beautiful things can grow from there and and there's. There's nothing like what's up top matches what's below. That makes sense. So I say that, uh, they're really different yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think you came out with this phrase sand versus soil yesterday in my memory, um, but we've been talking about that. We talk. I actually think this is fundamentally what we talk about all the time. This is kind of at the heart of it and we circle around it. Sometimes we get very confused by it. So I think you did a good job there of explaining sand and soil.
Speaker 2:What I would add is, for me, in a world that encourages us to build on sand Right, so the power dynamic is in the favour of sand Right, and I think the first word that comes to mind for me when I think about building on sand is quick, fast. You know our old friend urgency culture, and that's usually what it is. It's like quickly, quickly, quickly, now, now, now want to see the thing as quickly as possible, being driven by. Usually, when you're dealing with fear I mean dealing with speed at that level you're dealing with fear, you're dealing with scarcity, you're dealing with that kind of shit, right, and probably something I should have said when I was checking in about how I was, because it's actually massive in my world right now, but this it relates to this is that one of the things that I've been doing recently is um, learning, relearning Reiki. So Reiki is an energy healing tool.
Speaker 2:I first started to learn Reiki in 2005 and love and it's actually like it's not something I go on about. I'm not, it's not some, I'm not a traditional Reiki healer but it's actually like served as a massive foundation for everything I do. It was through Reiki that I got into coaching, right? So it's like the kind of invisible foundation and soil. It's the soil, it's in my soil, right, I don't talk about it, not because I'm hiding it, but I just don't talk about it. It doesn't feel relevant, it's I'm just about it, if that makes sense, right, it's in everything.
Speaker 2:And so at the beginning of this year I really felt an urge to reconnect to my energy healer roots, where I am now right, and so you have attunements. They're called attunements and it's basically where you kind of receive an energetic healing that allows you to give Reiki, let's say, or channel the energy. Reiki through Reiki is just universal energy. It's like everywhere, it's all around us, but you just sort of channel it through you and into yourself, into other people, into things, right, and it kind of balances and realigns. So I was really I found myself beginning of the year very excited. This desire came up strong like oh, I feel like I want to do it all again. I want to learn about it now because when I learned about the first time, it was literally I was going from full-on unconscious, unaware, to my very, very first awakening. And now, nearly 20 years later, I was like oh.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I just want to. I love to go back to basics, right? I thought I want to go back to basics and relearn this from here. Now, what's, what is there for me?
Speaker 2:So, when I had my attunement a few weeks back, during the attunement, what happened to me was it was lovely, but I also felt like, oh my god, I saw like the last 20 years like flash before my eyes and it was a real feeling of like, oh my God, like so much has happened in the last 20 years, jeez, and and also it's like this excitement of like and I'm doing it again now, like I'm here for it. I'm here for the unfolding. Do you know what I mean? I'm here for it on a whole nother level than I was here for it last time, and I'm like, let's see what happens. This is I'm here, another level than I was here for it last time, and I'm like, let's see what happens. This is I'm here, and harvesting as we come into autumn is in, you know, in the, in my thoughts, and what I'm realizing is that I'm harvesting now seeds that I planted 20 years ago. Right, I'm not the only one, it's not just me, we're all harvesting seeds that we planted. Whatever you want to time level, you want to time scale, you want to put on it. And if you're not sure what seeds you planted, look at what you're harvesting and if you don't like what you're harvesting, that's okay, plant some new seeds, right? This is not a kind of it's your fault. Everything in your life is your fault. You manifested this bad thing, you know. Repeat after me people, we are not basic bitches, we don't do that here. Okay, life is more complex than that. And so, yeah, I'm in a place of sort of celebration, actually, and the soil, it's the soil and the sand, right.
Speaker 2:And 20 years ago, when no motherfucker knew what the hell I mean, I didn't even know what was going on. Personally, neither wasn't. Just, therefore, I chose to go in a different direction. I had no clue what the hell I was doing. I just knew that. I just didn't. I was done with the direction I was heading and I was like this is dead, right, this is dead. And I remember just feeling like, oh, I constantly was thinking there's got to be more to life than this. Surely, this is shit.
Speaker 2:I ticked boxes, people, the boxes were ticked around and I was like everyone's happy with me and give me big pats on the back and I'm really impressive, but I I can't even really get up in the morning, I can't get out of bed to do, I'm just calling sick, probably once a week. I was high performing so I was getting away with it, but that's all. But it was like. This is unsustainable. I don't even think I would have even used that language at that time. It was worth it and I just went off.
Speaker 2:I was like I need to see if there's something else. Something in me knew that this is headed in a and then I'm meant to do this for the next 40 years. I don't think so. That would have been been. That was built on sand. That's what I'm trying to say. So what happened was I got to the end of my sand land and for me, what it was to build on sand was to do what I was expected to do. I'd been given a rule book and I followed it. And that was building on sand for me, because it had nothing to do with me. I didn't know who I was. I had no clue who I was. I didn't care who I was, I just wanted to get stuff right right, give me stuff.
Speaker 1:Yes, so do you think that building on sand is about like taking and getting and it's not about like who you are on a soul level. It's not about, like you, being fed and nourished deeply by your life. It's like the pursuit of anything without any regard of the cost. So I get the sense that it's like you. You you're taking way more than you're giving to yourself, or you're taking way more than you're giving to yourself, or you're taking way more, taking more than a giving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go on I don't even know if you're even thinking in terms of taking and giving. It's really hard to um. I think what it is because, again, it was normalized, so building on. The reason why it was built on sand was because, here we go, my authentic self wasn't at, wasn't calling the shots yeah wasn't driving the car.
Speaker 2:You know that I wasn't building a life based on my authentic self. I was building a life based on my conditioning, my wounds and, by default, like sort of the wounds of the people that came before me and the the wounds, the collective wound in society. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean, well, it struck me when you were like I was dead, like that was dead. So to me, like dead, you're like this is dead, right, like that's a really interesting thing to say because, like no life, nothing's alive there, it is dead. And I do think that we are living in a world now I certainly feel like this sometimes where I'm like wow, I think a lot of people can't tell the difference between dead and alive, like that thing you're describing that to be I guess you're like mid-20s at that point to be like this is dead, like I think a lot of people don't realize that for a very, very long time, sadly.
Speaker 2:It takes a lot of courage, because I remember at the time people saying to me you're going to walk away from what's wrong with you. You're mad. You're going to walk away from this Like and I'm thinking from what this is some bullshit. Like what this is is money. We're making money. Let bullshit like what this is is money. We're making money. Let's face it, we're making money. We're disconnect.
Speaker 2:But I remember I used to call it, um, the land of the soul. They used to actually call it that the land of the lost souls. And I didn't have a dream. I didn't. I knew that there was some time there were people that I used to work with that sometimes used to leave and say, like I really want to and they'd want to pursue something really quite radical and creative or something and everyone else would just mock them and I'd be the only one going just do it. I was like, babe, if I had a dream, I'd do it. I just don't have a dream. I ain't got a clue. Um, there's a lot. I mean, it's a little different. Now you know that. That's the beauty of it.
Speaker 2:20 years later, there's so much more about around in this world around, you know, marching to the beat of your own drum and doing what makes you happy and being fulfilled. Remember, I'm the tail end of gen x. I come from a very soulless generation. Do you know what I mean? I do I know, I know my peoples and, um, we've been raised soullessly right. We've been raised soullessly right. We've been raised to take and grab and get and we are entitled as fuck, right, and I've never really related to that. I can play, because I'm amazing at masking, which is why I didn't even know I had ADHD for so long but it is just playing, right, it is just like surviving. It's not real, and so I think that, for me, sand is false, fundamentally right, and it's not built on anything real. And when I say real, I mean what's real to me is your core truth, your authentic self, your soul, that kind of stuff that has to sit. If this was like a sort of pyramid that has to sit either on the bottom rung or underneath the pyramid itself, right, then we built um, the foundations, a shoddy, and it's this kind of feeling of so.
Speaker 2:Building on sound has a feeling for me, and it has a feeling of like holding your breath. It has a feeling of like if we just hold everything. Just so hold it here, don't move anyone. And oh no, why did you move? It's your fault. It's all falling apart. Falling apart it's like no, it's not their fault. This thing was unsustainable and a shoddy ass. Building you know um and I think, and it's performative. Sand is performative, it's very much. It's filled on um external validation, approval and from people who build on sand. You don't get approval and validation from me building on sand, I don't you know. I mean, if you come to me and you tell me your sound achievements, okay cool, I'm not impressed. So I think it's true. I mean, it's so important that we, you know, this is how we break the shit down, isn't it? Because if we do it for validation, get validation for the real thing.
Speaker 1:But that's why some people don't like to come near me I'm dying because I'm imagining someone like arriving with their like certificate, sand, sand, achievement, and you've been like yeah, nah, next completely yeah, so funny, uh, if what it makes me think of is, um, what is it to like help like, healthy building, healthy building of anything, like you said at the beginning, you know finances, relationships, um, like health, like all of these things, right, building a relationship, uh, and I think that sand, let's call the a prominent culture that we're influenced by. Urgency, fast, take speed, performing, yeah, shiny Aesthetic.
Speaker 2:Lipstick on a pig.
Speaker 1:Lipstick on a pig. Exactly, lipstick on a pig is the perfect analogy for sand versus soil, right? But we've got all these examples of sand and I can so relate to this journey um of uh, of realizing young like this is not a soul is so unhappy. This happened to me when I was at school and I think the reason I was able to see it so young was because there was a massive rupture and um dismantling happening in my family at the time, like something had happened that had created a massive illusion, breaking for me this illusion of what we'd built as a family, and I kind of was like, oh my god, based on what I'm seeing, this means that this is all built on sand and my world crumbled, like my world crumbled of who I thought I was and who, where I thought I came from, and and it was so. So it was very hard for me as a teenager to make sense of this and talk to people about this, like I couldn't understand that um, other people didn't see the world how I see it.
Speaker 1:I think at that time I also was cynical and hurt and wounded and and angry and and disappointed with what I was seeing, but it lit a fire in my belly of like so many people around me said, you know, if you leave and drop out of school, like you have no options available to you, like that is like um suicide for your future.
Speaker 1:And I remember thinking I do not care, I would rather follow what I feel inside of me right now and take this risk than step foot in an educational institution ever again. And that changed. I did go back and I did heal and I did it. I ended up becoming on the other side as a teacher and realizing actually there's a lot you can do to shift the status quo from the inside, um. But at that time I was like you couldn't, you couldn't. There's no money in the world you could pay me to stay, I don't care. And I, and similar to you, I couldn't feel I didn't really have dreams either. I couldn't really feel a creative spirit or spark, but I knew that I also couldn't continue over there.
Speaker 1:I was dead, I was dead inside and I, I and I, and then life took me on this interesting journey where I did end up sort of conforming again at a certain point, um, and that was kind of around the time you and I met, actually because I started, um, I created an organization and that organization had to fit inside of certain rules and ways of being, and then I found myself struggling again with like, oh how, and I became trapped in that like, how do I? I built this thing that felt so authentic to my creative spirit, felt so true to do this, but I built it in a way that fits into this other thing and we can't we now can't survive without it. Like I was, like I need to get out. This is this, is this is this is killing me again. I'm once again dead. I've arrived back, yeah, I mean funny, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Do you see what I mean when I say because the pull? Don't underestimate the pull and the conditioning. We've had sand conditioning in our formative years. So it's not sand or soil, right, it's not sand bad, soil good, to some degree, right, it's. I actually think sand, sand, building on sand, is a right of passage. We're all gonna do that.
Speaker 2:There's probably some area of my life right now that I'm building on sand and it's probably the area that is giving me the most challenge. But it's, yeah, I think it's a right of passage. And the sand can lead to the soil because the pain gets too much, the discomfort gets too much. You know, um, we're here for the life experience, right, that's how I see it. Like we're not trying to do everything perfect and be good and to, I don't know, complete this. You know, done, fixed, live, developed enough. Now, growth, I've, I've achieved the top level of growth, I've finished. That's not a thing you know. So, yeah, it's a rite of passage. And, yeah, give ourselves grace for when we notice that, like I'm building on sand, motherfucker, it's tempting. It's tempting, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, can I just say building on sand is a rite of passage.
Speaker 2:What a mic drop wow, this is why we need sounds right. Yeah, because this, that would be a sound and you would have said that and I would have done this sound, but we don't have the sounds, because I only ever remember the sounds when we're recording the podcast yeah, uh, sis Lola, doing the lord's work, doing the lord's work out here, sand leads us to the soil.
Speaker 1:We're here for the life experience. Yes, thank you for saying that. I think that uh it. I think it would be impossible in this life, in these cultures, like with what we're exposed to, to not do anything different. And and on a spiritual level as well, I think this is unavoidable. I think it is one of the, I think it is one of the uh, the voyages of the human experience. I, I was listening to, um, the great John O'Donoghue, my favorite, bring him up a lot on the pod. I just the last couple of days, I've been starting my day with a bit of John a couple of sermons from John and he was talking about the harvest.
Speaker 1:And he was talking about, um, it was so perfect because John uh, may his soul rest he's been dead for quite a long time and I just happened to put it on and it was talking about the harvest, a recording of him, and he was saying about the voyage of the harvest. What is the voyage of this particular harvest? Right, and, and that's exactly what you've been sharing, right, like, 20 years ago, I planted these seeds and now I've got these. You know my language. I would call them like the miracle beans, like, oh, my god, look what came, came 20 years on, right, and then, what's the voyage that you took from 20 years ago to get to this place where this, this, this element of life, is, is, is, is creating and producing such beauty? Right, and the reality that there's going to be other areas where you're still on sand, I can think.
Speaker 1:For me, actually, it feels like a health thing. I'm like, oh, there's some. I'm so tempted with my health to skip the steps, yeah, and to to start from the beginning and and go back to the soil with my health is so, oh God, it's, it's. I don't know how to do that. Yet I don't think I'm learning. I'm really like open to be taught by life how to do it, because I don't see many examples of people building a relationship with themselves physically, holistically, that's built on soil.
Speaker 2:True soil, I agree. So we have to forge our own path. A lot of the stuff we're doing right now is forging our own path and then I think it's normalizing it. Sorry, just when you were saying that, it made me feel really emotional. Has it has been a serious voyage, you know, of the last 20 years and yeah it's, but it's worth it. I mean, I don't want to do it again, don't get me wrong. You know, when people always ask you that question, if you do it again, would you do it all again? I'm like don't ask, just don't even ask. No one's even asking. Now I'm asking oh my god, the voice is in the head, but um, yeah, it's what it says.
Speaker 1:Something can you name it like what part feels emotional um?
Speaker 2:It's been a lot of work. It really has, you know, because, as you're speaking about the health piece, I would probably say that's definitely one of my sound areas, too, where I'm learning, and one of the things that makes it really hard to learn is, yeah, health is one of those areas in our world that has got a lot of funk in it, you know, a lot of noise and confusion and, yes, I'm walking that path now as a and I think this is important because this is your body but as a black, neurodivergent woman, right, because sometimes a lot of the things have been not even. Sometimes, pretty much all of the time the things that we are told about our health has been scientifically not even included women, it's all just been done on men or we've just run with it. And the changes I've seen in my body in my 40s has absolutely blown my mind. And, yeah, yeah, I'm very aware that most of the things around health are geared towards young men. I'm not a young man. I've never been a young man, right, and my body told me that. You know, when I got to a stage, my body was like I'm feeling fine, my body's going. This is too much and I'm going to tell you by, your nervous system is jacked, ego is a ton of cortisol and I'm like what? But I love doing that. I can't do that no more. Right, because no one's done any. No one's done the research. No one's done any fucking research on 40 plus year old women in their perimenopausal years, right? So even if they were doing research on young women, it wouldn't necessarily apply.
Speaker 2:So it's, we really are just figuring this out for ourselves and, um and for me, I'll take a bit of western medicine, I'll take a bit of eastern, I'll take a bit of somatic. I think there's something in all of it. I'm really, truly I'm into the holistic thing, and I have got to a stage in my life now where, so I think this is what's, this is important for the sand and soil, understanding what your sand and your soil is. Because I think, again, like everything, there's going to be slight differences right between us, and one of the things for me with sand is actually things that we're told are really good, like listening to people. I'm not, I don't think I'm supposed to listen to people, I really don't. I actually just find that distracting, and not just distracting mentally. I find actually that it kind of takes me off my path and then I find my way back and I'm like, yeah, I kind of knew that I didn't need to do that. That's, that's a sand thing for me for sure, right, a sand behavior. Um, not everyone. I shouldn't be listening to everyone and it's and it's also just even being in the vicinity, like so.
Speaker 2:When it comes to health, there are certain things. Health is one, money's another. I don't like talking to people. It doesn't do. I don't do well with being around just anyone talking about it. There are a few people that I do talk about money with, and the reason why I'm saying that is because my nature is really sensitive and quite porous, and so I take stuff on without meaning to and I don't believe it, and it's not even my stuff, and some of this stuff is just so heavily charged in our world, and the more I strip back, the more I have to be mindful of what I put myself around. Right, and that goes against the message of it's good to grow together, it's good to do, and for me it's like, of course, yes, I get it, and not not everyone for me, you know, and you know like, I think you sent me something the other day from someone and I looked at it and I thought that looks nice. But I said to you, the first question I asked was do you know anything about this person's life? What's their life like? And I'm not talking about having, I don't even know what I want to hear. I just know that the information that I get will tell me whether this is a yes or no. Right, because I think there's a lot of sand.
Speaker 2:I think I'm team soil, you know I'm team soil in my life, but also supporting people, because I think clients come in. Clients come in, usually clients when they come to work with me and other coaches. They come in with um. Whatever their areas that they want to focus on, they're usually on sand, they're built on sand and something is kind of activating them into well, they're hustling. They're hustling to maintain the sand until you can't. That's what we all do, you know. It's like hustling to maintain the sand until you can't. That's what we all do, you know. It's like the hustle to maintain the sand life. It shouldn't take hustle. You know soil doesn't take hustle because it's rooted, it's deep.
Speaker 2:You know um, and it's funny, isn't it? Because often what needs to happen is like something needs to be blowing the fuck up and I'm purposefully using very dramatic terms, because it's what we don't want to happen. It's like oh, no, don't, don't, don't. Oh, okay, maybe something a bit more gentle. No, blow it the fuck up. Whatever you know, I mean it needs to be blown up because something else wants to be born in its place, and often we just cling, cling, cling into our sand like I don't know. Just, you can just, and like physically you can't even cling to sand, and then yeah, it's like rubs through your fingers right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's like you can't even like grasp him, and it reminds me of sand castles. That's the other thing that comes to mind. It's like you can build this elaborate sand castle, can't you? And then the wave can just be like okay, gone oh, do you know what?
Speaker 1:like the thing that it god it like touches something in me around building romantic partnership on sand and it's a, it's, it's a you know this is very like real life thing for me right now, in that I'm at the stage of my life where that's kind of what I want.
Speaker 1:Next is, so I'm working towards um yeah, big priority of mine is to orient my life to make space for that and to build, co-create a romantic partnership with somebody built on soil and I think that's part of the coming home and and being like I actually need different foundations for this, for me to be ready and open and clear to do this. Uh, my like deepest fear is doing that and building it on sand me too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the pain is horrible, isn't it?
Speaker 1:oh, the pain of it. And I think about the pain that you know I've come across time and time again in my work. And you know, again similar to you, like guiding people to first be able to be like, wow, we've actually built this on sand. Not judge themselves for that, because it's kind of what we're given as a map, and then do the work to lay down the soil and then start gardening and then start taking care of it differently. But you, you have to kind of let go of the parts of the relationship that are built on the sand to then to and it's harder to do that, obviously, when you've already built the thing right. So I'm in the privileged position right now that I haven't done that yet. You know I'm, I'm at the early stages of like, okay, like I've learned a lot. I've learned a lot of lessons in this arena from doing that over and over again.
Speaker 1:It's very painful and it's part of, as we said earlier, like the the is. I mean the way that sand, like romantic partnerships are idolized in our society is just truly grotesque. I mean it's like that, the that we could, I mean we, we could, we could go off on a huge tangent here, but there's like a, it's like a we've we've fed like artificial sweetener as the real thing and it's not the real thing. Again, hard for people to see the difference. Like. People will idolize certain couples or relationships because of the aesthetic and how they look together and how they're performing, without being able to feel in any bone of their body that that's built on sand. That could be a completely manufactured pr relationship and people would be like, wow, wow, I want that we uh, yeah, this one is yeah, relationships are a mess a mess a real mess.
Speaker 2:Um, we're all figuring it out, aren't we? And yeah, relationships, romantic relationships, are a humongous area where it's quite hard to build on soil, because, you know, what I see in this area is you've got that what you were just talking about there, all of the kind of things that we're pumped at, um, images and, um, you know something, just manufactured, you know, like, especially like in the, in the media, either. You know, a lot of it is just a business arrangement at the end of the day. So, like, the thing that you think you want, that you're projecting onto them, isn't even real. They're not even experiencing it. So it's, it's not even sand, it's like air, it's nothing right. That makes me feel quite sad that people are chasing down things aren aren't at all real, that are just a figment of your own imagination. And then the other side of it, though, is this other narrative that I see of this kind of coming from the old school. So this is something I don't know. I'm going to play with something here. I don't know enough about soil, but I wonder what happens if it gets too hard or something.
Speaker 2:And what I mean is, you know, when people say things like, oh, nobody, um, nobody's got the patience for a proper relationship anymore, you know, or people just bolt at the first sign of any problems.
Speaker 2:That kind of attitude they're kind of a bit more of an old fashioned attitude, harking back to the idea of like marriage being good, very binary marriage good, not being married bad, that kind of shit, and that one can end up being like, as you put it, it's like a prison or something you know, it's like um and it's an excuse. So maybe it's just another type of sound. Actually, it might be just another type of sound because it becomes like an excuse of like um, because I see this in relation to toxic behavior. Right, so something is happening, it's actually toxic and it's like. This is a terrible sign. This is a massive red flag. There's an issue here with this person's relationship, and I mean an issue like this person shown, like you know, narcissistic traits or something that it's like you need to know, when it's like this is never going to work, okay, but you're there trying to make it work because you're being, uh, reasonable yes and so you.
Speaker 2:So it's like an illusion, it's like fake soil. It's fake soil, a thing I don't know, do you know?
Speaker 1:what I mean. Well, I think the analogy of soil here is really helpful because we're just really running with this, so let's just see how this lands. But the my understanding is, if the soil is too wet, so there's a huge storm and it's too wet soppy, it just washes it away and that, like beautiful topsoil, just gets completely wiped away and then you don't have the right nutrients, right. So I would imagine, like too soppy, too wet too, just like in the, but like lovey-dovey stuff, not in the, like real relating, right, they're like roots and like, okay, we have in the real conversations, right too dry. So if, like, you have like a um, like a drought, too dry, I don't think you can really plant on that soil either. Right, super dry, nothing's getting in, and that to me would be like um, sort of like a relationship that's so rigid and embedded in maybe, maybe traditional values, maybe not, maybe just like this is the way we are and this is the way men and women are together.
Speaker 1:There's no evolution, it hasn't grown with the seasons and the tests of time, so you get stuck. Like you, you might be built on sand, but that sand is. Sand is something that's changing, it's evolving. You know, we've talked about giving the soil a fallow year, so you're not constantly um harvesting from the soil, so that's something for me that I'm doing right now in my creative life and business. I'm having a fallow year and a few weeks ago I checked in with myself and I was like, oh, is it? And it was like, is it time to create again? And it was like no, I literally touched him with myself and that part of me was like I'm resting, leave me alone. And I was like I'm resting, leave me alone. And I was like, okay, like no problem, I'll check back in in a few months. And there are other beans, as in. I have a few things I've harvested and I recently created something and shared it, but it's like a tiny thing in comparison to, like, the capacity of my full land yeah, totally, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2:Okay. Do you know what? Do you think maybe we should learn about soil? I don't think when we started this podcast I thought we was ever going to speak about soil so much, but it comes up over and over again and it is just like you know. Maybe we should learn something about this nature stuff, because you know, I'm an earth sign as well and I do. I do love earth. I really do. I love a bit of earth. Um, anyway, digress, what I also want to add in here is that some people are sand people and I think some people will only ever be sand people definitely think there's a caveat there that needs to be put in.
Speaker 2:Some people have got no interest in soil or no capacity for soil. That's how it appears to me. You know no judgment, but it does look like some people. I don't have this belief that everybody is capable and you know, not everyone wants that. Some people want to live a nice sort of you know, sandy life pig on lipstick on sandy life pig on the lipstick, life lipstick pig on the lipstick. My god, yeah. So you need to know the difference, because sometimes I'm I'm a soil person facts and I don't always recognize sometimes when someone's a sand person, because we will.
Speaker 2:We will project our own stuff onto people and or assume, and I think the other day we had a conversation where you really helped me see something, um, and I was, and it was a sand and a soil moment because I was saying I have these feelings sometimes where I don't. I have I'm a very feeling creature and then the thinking comes a lot like, sometimes a lot after, but I trust the feelings and um was in a situation where I was in a group and there was some talk about relationships and I've noticed that there's a lot of kind of it feels like to me. There's a lot of women who want relationships. That feels like a true thing, right, and what I noticed was more of an absence, because I was in this situation and people were talking about relationships around me and what they wanted and I was somebody who has a relationship, has a long term relationship, it's built on soil, solid and and it's not perfect.
Speaker 2:I always have to put that in because people just assume nonsense and I but I could feel this thing and I came to you and I was like I don't know what it was, but something was bothering me in that conversation because I was like what was really weird was I had what they wanted. I didn't feel like I had what they wanted in the conversation. It was really. That was a strange feeling. I was like I would expect to feel grateful and I didn't feel it because you have a partner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like yeah.
Speaker 2:Like a sort of a feeling of it felt natural to be, feel something like oh you know I'm, how lucky am I that I have this or something. I didn't feel it. I didn't feel anything and I was like that was weird. And then you said to me I was like whoa, you said something like no what did you say? Because I can feel me, I'm about to mash it up.
Speaker 1:Wow, I said to you that, like you, don't have what they want.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's what you said. Yeah, that's actually not it. Yeah, you said that you don't have what they want, or they don't want what you've got, or something like that.
Speaker 1:That was what I heard, and it was like oh yeah, what they're like wanting is not the thing you actually have, so it's not resonant yes, because I did.
Speaker 2:I was feeling like there was this kind of because I think sand can be immature as well. I think we can look at it like that. Right, we all have immature sides. Sand is a bit immature. It's like there's a quote, peter tosh, it's so, I love it. Everyone wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die, right, and I love it. It's such a great quote where it's so, I love it. Everyone wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die, right, and I love it. It's such a great quote where it's like people, everyone wants the thing, yeah, but they don't want to do the thing to get the thing. That means you don't.
Speaker 1:That means you don't want the thing, then I'm afraid I heard a new expression this week that I loved Fur coat no knickers, oh.
Speaker 2:I love it. Have you never heard that before?
Speaker 1:I've never heard it and you know, someone new in my life said it and I fucking laughed my head off. I was like fur coat, no knickers, that is so good, that's like lipstick and a pig.
Speaker 2:Yes, totally, I love it. Yes, fur coat, no knickers is true I love it yeah, we can think sand is about that, isn't?
Speaker 1:it's thinking too much about the outside, only nothing about the interior oh, the rotting, oh, oh, I think I've been a big proponent, for you know, like I'm like a big, big up the rock crew. I've always been like the one in my family that's like hello, hello, the house is on fire. Everyone's like shut up. The house is really on fire and people are like please. And it really took me a long time, as a sensitive young little soul and I'm not, you know, saying this to say I'm amazing because I point to things.
Speaker 1:But I really find it very hard to be in the presence of something that's happening so blatantly and clearly and not name it, not say hey, like what's that thing? In the corner of the room there's a smell. Yeah, I don't understand how people can just carry on and not acknowledge it, but it is that's why I've always found like conventional work. I don't understand how people can just carry on and not acknowledge it, but it is that's why I've always found like conventional work, conventional schooling, like where there's lots of rules and ways of being, and you know, as you say, I also have range and can mask very well and can dance in all the circles that are required to play the game of life, and I find it so disenchanting to not be around real, real conversations and and people that have, I guess, a relationship with themselves that's honest about where they're really at in their life, what's really going on behind the scenes, what their capacity really is like, what they're really feeling on the inside. And obviously no one knows you anything.
Speaker 1:Right like people have a choice. There's many reasons why we play the game of sand and not soil and there's many reasons why we're not honest with each other and ourselves. Right cannot prescribe that to other people. It's really a personal choice to choose something different. Um, I think if you are a soil person and I imagine a lot of our listeners are going to be soil people because if you're a sand person, you'd probably be not tuning in.
Speaker 1:I don't think this would be your vibe. You wouldn't be relating to these conversations but soil people.
Speaker 2:I don't think you would get over our um lack of polish and our rawness. Do you know what I mean? They're not doing it properly. That's not how you do a podcast, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, soil people, we know sound people, we're friends with sound people, we work with sound people we're in our families, we're in our families. So we've got you know, like to know and understand that way of being in the world, the fear that governs that and the lengths we will go to to maintain it. It's, it's, it's. I think it's a good skill to understand this.
Speaker 2:I agree, I do think it's a good skill, I think it's good to have. I mean, when you're just speaking there about that, what I was thinking was some people, and I remember a time in my life when it's like this I didn't know there was anything else available, but sound right, I did. Even I didn't. I literally didn't know no, and so you're just kind of it's like you're in a pond, it's like you're faffing around in this pond trying to, you know, make this pond work for you and be as resourceful as fuck in this pond, without an awareness that there's that entire ocean out there oh yes, it's really sad, isn't it?
Speaker 1:oh, it is. I've been feeling the last couple of days like you know, I'm in this phase. Right now, I'm rethinking my creative land, I'm rethinking my own life. You know, I'm, you know, similar to Lola, like been coaching, teaching, guiding other people, and in order to do that really well, I think, with our, our home needs to be tended to, home inside of ourselves spiritual home, physical home, emotional home and I needed a break. I needed to come back to myself. I needed to be less in other people's journeys and a lot more in my own, and that was the first time I'd taken a break from that in, you know, I don't know, 15 years coming up from when I first started my journey of entrepreneurship, which was all about other people and serving the service.
Speaker 1:What the space from my work has given me is a recognition that the way I've built my work is a way of building community, hopefully built on soil. I think that is something I am really good at doing real, real friendships, real connections, relationships with. I've had so many soul clients come through my doors and stay with me for years and will probably be in my life for the rest of my life and I was thinking about how you know, love, loving others and being loved and being known by others is probably the most important thing, um, that exists in our lives is, you know, do we matter? Do we have, do we have, strong kinship? And I've been thinking about how my work is so connected to the love I have in my life, both in me pouring out and me receiving so much, and I just feel so immensely grateful that, um, my soul path has been one where I know, if I continue doing the work that I do, I'm, I'm always going to have beautiful relationships continually coming into my life and getting better and better and better.
Speaker 1:I can't remember why I wanted to tell, tell that story or what thread we were on before, but I think it's a piece of the space from work Rabbit Ears. Work has shown me what matters to me. What matters to me that whatever business structure I create, next at the heart of it has to be friendship, service, love, connection, deep in a deep soul nourishing way. Otherwise I don't want it.
Speaker 2:I love that, and when you were speaking about that, I was thinking about when, because I can imagine when you decide, when you decide to take that pause in sand land, it's from the sand perspective. It's not understood right. So from a sand perspective, it's like what you doing? I don't know. I think what is it? From sound perspective? You just meant to run business forever and then to just keep growing, growing, growing, growing, growing never meant to rest and your profits are meant to run business forever and then to just keep growing, growing, growing, growing never meant to rest and your profits are meant to go up every year.
Speaker 1:You know linear, linear, and that's good, and anything else is bad.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, okay, so you're, yeah, you're that, but that you see, the sound sand, that's what you have to go against, isn't it? Because that will come up in you, the sand will come up in you, and you will be like, even though you're, you know what you're doing and you're marching to be of your own drum, you're following your truth, you still hear those voices of like oh my god, I'm failing, or whatever you know, which is a great opportunity to see some sand in you and get rid of it, or whatever you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, exactly, and you know what, like um, I was telling you this yesterday I was speaking to our accountant because we have the same accountant and I was just like, oh, just out of you know, out of curiosity, what's my corporation tax going to be this year? Because we're at the end of the financial year. And she was like, oh, probably, you know, around 300 pounds. I was like I nearly fucking died because I've just paid last year's corporation tax bill, which was.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know how much more percent more than that, but it was a lot it was about, I would say.
Speaker 2:For my shitty maths I'd say it's about five, five million percent.
Speaker 1:I was like 300 pounds tax bill and I could look at that and think, oh, my god, you know, I've earned so much less money this year. I'm thinking, oh, how good does this feel to like? That tells a story of what this year's been like for me compared to what the last few years were like for me and how much I was working, and I loved that too, and I needed a break from that level of output. I could not sustain that. And so to say that, like you were to look at the story of my business through numbers, they would. They would. It would tell a story, and I will tell you the story of 2024. It's been a fucking great year where I've lived on a lot less and given up a lot, and it's been with an enormous gain. That number feels like spaciousness in breath.
Speaker 1:It's going to go up again, of course, exactly in a nourishing way yeah, I'm excited for it to go up, but I'm not like, obviously, I like I don't mind paying tax, taxes, taxes, tax. It's a fact.
Speaker 2:And to have paid so much tax and then be paying so much less tax yeah it's a nice feeling, just for a year I've had some of those years, I know exactly what you mean. And it's funny, isn't it? Because there's a great example of how to respond to something from a sand place or a soil place. So from a sand place, you give that information. A lot of people are just gonna boom, that's got meaning, we get it. We know what that means. It's negative. Oh, I'm so sorry, live or whatever, but really, from a soil perspective, ask the fucking question how do you feel about that? What does that mean to you? Because until you have that, all you know is her corporation tax figure. You don't know anything else. That's not enough information. It's actually not enough information to decide anything.
Speaker 1:I'm dancing on the tables. I'm fucking elated by that number and, like the fact that I have given myself the gift and being given it by the support I've received to do it, to take this time off. It is such a privilege, it's important. And it will be like if we talk about 20 years from now. The fallow year of 2024 will be part of that harvest, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And the fallow. The fallow piece as well is really important here, and fallow is only a word that I've become aware of this year. I think we might have mentioned this on another podcast, but I love it. It's literally like the word of the year, and what it makes me realize is when I talk about summering this year and not summering for the last few years. It was a fallow year. Those were fallow summers for me, right? So sand life would be. Oh God, it's summer. I've got to go on holiday. I've got to do this because it's summer, and summer means this.
Speaker 2:But it I can't go against my truth anyway, right, even if I don't understand why. So that was, it was just a clear no, like, no, no, no, no, no. The hardest thing for me is actually dealing with other people, and I think that is why what I'm talking about when I'm saying pulling away from certain groups, because the more unconventional you become in the way you live your life, the harder actually is to relate to. Let's just call the masses, let's say the masses I don't even know what the phrase is now. Um, and that's just the truth. You know, that's just something that, um, I experience. It doesn't. It's not a terrible thing, because I also have amazing people in my life and there's new amazing people coming in all the time that are aligned, and there are people leaving who are misaligned, making room right. So no, there's no sadness here about that, it's just the fact of what life is like now. But I just want to name that because the more you kind of live your truth and march the beat of your drum, things like that will happen.
Speaker 2:And if that's happening to you now, I just want to normalize it, because it's not normalized or spoken about a lot, and then it becomes like a. You can gaslight yourself with it and feel like you're doing something wrong and you you're probably not just not understood, people don't understand, and you're doing something that other people aren't doing. Basically, so you can have things other people aren't having or experiencing and they can't understand it. Do you know what I mean? And that's there's a. There is a little, there's a little grief there, you know. But, um, because I would love, I would love to be able to just be around people like I used to be able to, but I can't, and that's part of my soil existence and that's just the truth. It's just what it is yes, I have this fear.
Speaker 1:I don't know whether other people kind of relate to this, but it's a topic that's kind of up for me. So, like, replace this topic with something else that's more relevant to your life. But for me, um, you know, I'm approaching the phase in my life where I'd love to become a mother. I'd love to embark on the journey of motherhood in the next few years and, again, similar to like partnership, like kind of just really thinking about creating the soil in my life being fertile grounds for that, and I've really been thinking about, like, what does it mean to live in a state of fertility, not just now in my 30s, but 40s and 50s? And like, like, it's not about being able to like conceive and get pregnant, but actually it's about living in this way. That's about vitality, and um, soil is a massive part of that, because it needs to be in a state of fertility and you need to take care of it, and I'm learning how to do that.
Speaker 1:One fear I have is I don't I don't have many people in my life, around me physically, that have shared those values. I think, like, how do I get ready for that in the next few years? And, like, right now. I think I'd be up against a lot of pushback potentially for some of the things that I I'm like. How do you navigate this in a world where I know?
Speaker 1:you know, birth and motherhood is so medicalized and um, and I'm, you know I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but it's a fear I sit with as I think about planting seeds now that will take care of future Liv and future Liv's family, like how to set myself up where I'm not in combat with anything in order to live that in this world. That, I think, is very sand focused, very much like outcome at all costs is the world we live in.
Speaker 1:When it comes to this, I'm not an outcome at all costs.
Speaker 2:Person was anything to do with the body and life yeah, no, I get that oof and jeez, you know, as someone with a 15 year old son. The actual pregnancy part no real issue there, because I just wasn't on, I had no clue, I was just gonna, I just I just did it, um, but the raise for me, the trickier part actually was cause then you're around other mothers. That was what I found more tricky being around other mothers, um, you know, um, I also had a child. I didn't know he was autistic at the time but he didn't. So she didn't want to re socialize, socialize with the other kids or anything like that. You know, and I used to go to all these things, that you go to awful things where you sing nursery rhymes and stuff, and I'll be honest, I hate all that shit and he didn't even enjoy it. It didn't look like he was enjoying it anyway. But I think I'd always find that one other mother who, probably in hindsight, whose kid was also probably autistic, when I think about it, and we would just be on our own. But we were never in the thick of it, we just wasn't about all of that stuff. It's just not my nature. I found that harder. And then when he went to school as well, because this is the this, this is the hard bit, right.
Speaker 2:Parenting in a soil, over sandway is actually quite challenging because it's all your shit, right. So it's one thing making these decisions for yourself, these bold soil decisions for yourself, based on your truth, and now you've got this child and it's I don't know, it just tests you. It really tests you between, like, oh my god, this kind of pause to like I want him to fit in or I want him to all the, you know, have friends or whatever. There's a whole list of things we all want for our kids, right, get good grades and you can make that shit happen at all costs as well. You know, you can hire tutors, you can do things and make all that.
Speaker 2:But I remember and it took me a long time, I'll be honest, I was sanding it. I was sanding it up more than I care to admit with my son, yeah, and it's sometimes I look back now. There were times where, literally a few times a month, I probably say to him I'm so sorry, I'm so, so sorry that I made you go to school when he clearly wasn't for him, you know, but there were times where I didn't think there were any other choices, right, and, and we have those conversations, but it's yeah, I remember having little moments with other parents, like you'd be talking. I just always remember feeling like, oh God, I always say the wrong thing. You know, like there'll be a kid.
Speaker 2:I remember one time being with these mums and they were talking about their kids, their daughters, their daughters. They were young and they were like talking about how sassy their daughters were and how much they hate it. And I was like, oh, I love a sassy, I love a sassy young girl. And when they were telling the story of what she'd done, I'm like thinking this is great. I don't, I'm not like not reading the room at all. I'm like, oh, my god, go, you know, go her. She's going to be a strong woman, she grows up or something.
Speaker 2:And then it's like everyone looks at you like, oh, lola thinks this is funny, and it's like, oh, no, they don't think it's funny. They think this is like really terrible, because they want to break their child in like a fucking wild horse. Right, and I'm not, I'm not about that life. I'm like express yourself, girl. And then you know, set boundaries and all that, but don't stifle them. That's my belief.
Speaker 2:And then I remember they'll be. You know, they're all chasing the sand school life, and there was a part of me even then. They used to be like this don't matter, though. There's a lot of this stuff that doesn't really matter. I could tell, and I remember one time saying to one of the mums when she's asking about something, and I said to her do you know what? If I'm honest with you, I'm not trying to raise my child for a dying world, because that's what it felt like to me.
Speaker 2:It was like I feel like people are putting a lot of effort into raising their child for a fucking dying world, a world that their child isn't going to even grow up in.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean like this world now, this world now or even then, we're talking like 10 years ago. Whatever is dying, it's very different, pre pandemic, um, sometimes then as well, we're raising them based on our past and our upbringing. So it's even older and even older dead world, and then your child is going to grow up in a world that we have no fucking clue what it's going to be. It's emerging. So the same with in my leadership work, which is all about leading in an emerging world. You know I'm raising my child for an emerging world and I, you know, maybe hopeless, maybe 10 years time live, we get to see the harvest of how that's gone. But I do think it'll be fine. I do. I know I'm doing the right thing, I'm following the right thing and it will make sense later backwards, right, but I remember that feeling of like kind of loneliness, yeah, yeah, oh, the soil path being a lonely path, yeah a loneliness in terms of parenting on a parent influx.
Speaker 2:It was. It was lonely.
Speaker 2:It's actually only now that I feel less loneliness as a parent yeah loneliness as a parent has been my norm, um, and I feel less loneliness as a parent now because he has a diagnosis and because I get to. I feel a kinship with other parents with kids on the spectrum. You know it feels real. I realized that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Neurotypical I didn't have a neurotypical kid, so following the neurotypical guidelines around kids was sand, was sand parenting for me yeah, nice, I just love watching you parent your son.
Speaker 1:I think like the, especially the last few years, and I think one of the reasons it's touched me is because that was such a I was such a misunderstood misfit of a kid who had all these needs and no one really knew what was going on and and school was awful, awful, awful place. And to watch you guide yourself and him to a new environment and, like, take him out of that, and you know there's so many other things you do that I witness on the on the reg that I'm like, um, your son is an amazing being this is gorgeous, sensitive, gifted spirit, and to have you as a parent is an enormous gift and I think that, uh, as you say, it's emerging, but you're doing an incredible, incredible work as a parent thank you, he's gonna surprise us all.
Speaker 2:That's the only thing. I know that's the message that I always hear. It's like he's gonna surprise us, all of us so I just don't want to limit him by my own understanding yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:It's so inspiring to watch and I often say to you there's not I don't have any examples actually in my life where I'm inspired by people. Other people's parenting, um, I respect it. I respect what it takes. I've never done it. I've been around a lot of parents and young children and I respect anyone who's a parent. I really do. I think this is a huge, huge, huge, huge courageous thing to do and you inspire me thanks, babe.
Speaker 2:yeah, thank, I think we're supposed to inspire. Yeah, I'm up for the inspiring piece. Important, but in its right time in its right time.
Speaker 2:It's not like when, now, how are we going to do it? Run out of time, it's like it's not the time for that. So maybe we inspire just by living. You know there are lives that we get. We inspire just by living. You know there are lives that we get to touch just by living. There are, um, we're doing our little bit to disrupt the status quo here, just by in our existence. Right, we're not, we're not upholding it, we're not colluding with it, that's for sure. Um, so we're doing our bit and there'll be more and I trust that we'll know when it's the right time, but for now it's for us.
Speaker 2:You know, we've still got and that's the other thing with sand, I think a lot of the time, especially in our world, sand living is facing outwards on something when it's not time for you to face outwards because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about yet. Love, you know, like it's. Don't know what the fuck you're talking about yet love you know like it's. You know what I mean. Like this kind of reading a book or ever doing a course, whatever the thing is, and then immediately facing out about as an expert we've lost, we've lost. And then not even that.
Speaker 2:The other thing that pisses me off is if you're like I don't know if I feel comfortable, I don't know if I'm ready for that. That's a limiting belief. Oh, the fucking bullshit. You know, and I think some people are getting gaslit, some people are, some people feel the truth and they're buying the bullshit, that it's like you've got a fear of visibility, you're the world's best kept secret, all the other crappy bullshit things that you know, and it's like. It's not always the case. Yeah, it might be that you've got integrity. It might be that you've got self-respect and respect for other people and you don't want and you feel responsible. You're actually being a responsible coach or whatever. Right, you're not just like, uh, you're not an influencer and you can tell the difference. You can tell the difference between somebody who knows what the fuck they're talking about and somebody who, I don't know, it's just good at marketing or it's just sort of um eloquent or point or something.
Speaker 2:There's a difference, you know um snake oil, snake oil yeah the snake oil salesman, this person, the snake old salesperson person did you ever watch the film matilda?
Speaker 1:not yet. Okay, there's a great figure in that it's her dad. He is like the epitome of the snake or salesman and no shame, the book I've read.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is it like danny?
Speaker 1:devito yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, no shame just selling, yeah, selling shitty. Rotting vehicles, absolute epitome of no, and selling it as if it's the most like luxurious amazing thing in the world, total flashy yeah so much bollocks out there.
Speaker 2:I think the other day I was saying to you, we're big Rick Rubin fans, right, and Rick Rubin is somebody who knows creativity. For me it's obvious because you can hear that he knows creativity when you hear him speak about it. And he's actually got a massive track record anyway, right, he's created a ton of for decades and um, and it's not that everything he says is absolutely applicable to everyone, right, but there's a lot this, there's a lot to learn right from him. And the other day on instagram, he has on his page he puts up a post for like 24 hours and it goes again. And the one he had the other day on Instagram, he has on his page, he puts up a post for like 24 hours and it goes again.
Speaker 2:And the one he had the other day which I really loved, was something about you shouldn't be thinking about sharing or selling your art when you're creating your art, which I loved, yes, I love that full permission. Create your art, just enjoy it, create it, revel in it, savoring it, and then, when you're done, get into a different mindset and you get about sharing it, right, marketing it, selling it, whatever. Now that when I saw that, my soul knew that was true for me, and what I also thought about was like look at what he's saying. He's telling us this this is somebody who has genuinely done a lot of stuff you know, had his hand in a lot of music that we've all listened to for decades and decades across so many genres, and you know what, so much music that we don't, we're not even aware that he has kind of had some input in. You know, because I think I just get the feeling with him that there's stuff he's not even credited for because maybe it's just a conversation or do you know what I mean? Or an idea or something just I can imagine. Spending time in his energy is just incredibly sparky of sparks your creativity that's what he said. That's very different to the snake oil massive who will say something like think about selling when you're creating Right and nowhere near the track records, just spouting words.
Speaker 2:There's something here I just don't like greedy. I find it greedy and I don't like greedy. I don't like it sometimes. These things when it comes to business, I'm definitely like building my business on soil very slowly, yes, very slowly. Sometimes I think, okay, I'm ready to go faster and it's like no, you're not on your timeline sometimes, I think one of the only things that would actually bring me out. There's something in here that motivates me about what we're speaking about, because we're only talking about rick and him putting that out there and then that's how it's touched me. It's touched loads of people, I'm sure you know. I think there's a lot more people in this world out there with integrity than we realize, and I don't know. I just think we need to make integrity normal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not an exception.
Speaker 1:I think it's helpful for people to reflect on where they are in or have integrity, because I think there's always some place where it's just sort of an inherent part of us that we live that way, where it's just sort of an inherent part of us that we live that way, and I think that I think that I think it's important to know, to know what it means for you to be in integrity.
Speaker 2:I think it's different for each person. Yeah, I think you can feel it, though. Yeah, for sure, you can feel someone's in integrity and I think a lot, unfortunately, a lot of the ways to be in integrity is to not just follow the ways of the sand.
Speaker 1:Yeah it kind of you know we talk about the snake oil massive. Think about and rick so beautiful to bring rick in just such a gorgeous soul and I love that, you know he just shares 24 hour posts takes it down. I it kind of just like attraction versus promotion, massive. Like are you constantly promoting, promoting, promoting, promoting, promoting, promoting, or are you living and breathing work, creative process? That's the most important thing. Obviously you want to be the door, we want the door open. So people, you're attracting people and there's an invitation they can come in. But the bulk of the focus is on the quality and the integrity of the work.
Speaker 2:There we go that's how I think it should be yeah, and it takes.
Speaker 1:I think that takes a lot longer.
Speaker 1:It does, and people want it to certainly put my hand in the air and say that the business I built over the last five or six years in hindsight built very quickly and never felt inherently safe in what I'd built there we go yeah, and when I knew it was time to let the large majority of it go and sift through and really take the pieces away and like take care of the pieces in it, that really felt that they were integrity and really me and really real and there was. There was definitely. You know, you like shake the sand and then inside is the gold. There was gold.
Speaker 1:I'm still harvesting it now, I'm still bringing it under my wing, like, yep, that's something that I really value. That's really me. That's really true to my life's work. That's coming with us. There's a lot of sand that can go. That's that quick sand that's influenced by uh, that's influenced and contaminated by something that does not share the same values as me, and that's going to stay in the past. And then let's hope, the next, in the next build hopefully a lot slower um, and safety and the baseline, absolutely baked in.
Speaker 1:Absolutely baked in. Otherwise it's a prison and it can be taken for you, taken from you in a heartbeat and you.
Speaker 2:You know that, don't you? That's why you don't feel safe. Yeah, that's yeah. So I'm hearing it's like so sand. We said speed going to going fast, chasing. I'm hearing there's a sense of like you're constantly chasing, hustling this um fear base. You don't feel safe in it. Scarcity I get an image of like patching things up. Sloppy actually is a word I'd use.
Speaker 1:Sloppy slapdash just bam bam, that'll do. I get like also like blown away in the wind. You just get blown away to the next thing and you're like what? Yeah, okay, great, what's next?
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, not anchored in anything flimsy. And then, um, oh, I wrote here because I was making notes move in with a thought a thorn in your paw, that's what it reminds me of. It's almost like you've actually got. Fundamentally, you got a thorn in your paw and what you need to do is fucking get the thorn out your fucking paw. You know, I mean because it's like the whole thing is built to alleviate the pain of the thorn in your paw or something, and sometimes that can be a pin noble from the outside as well. So this is about the motivations underneath, and I love what you said about quicksand.
Speaker 2:And then soil takes time. Safety is baked in, there's a solidity I'm hearing to it um, seasonal or cyclical? Actually, I really heard that it isn't an evergreen constantly on one. Yeah, it's not. It's seasonal or cyclical. It's not coming from your sheer will or your entitlement. It's coming more from a. It's coming from your authentic self, from a calling from your soul, from something.
Speaker 2:And also, I think there's something about soil which is actually about operating in relation to other people. Right, and operation operating in relation to the world, the rest of the world, not just people, but like being a part of the world, not just in isolation, taking what you want, and fundamentally, it nourishes you. Soil nourishes you, right? Sand does not nourish you. There's no time for nourishment when you don't feel safe and you're constantly chasing.
Speaker 2:So I think maybe the thing to do, if you're looking for anything practical, listening to this, if you want to start identifying, you know where the sand is and where the soil is in your life is to pay attention to the feeling. Where do you feel? You know, when I was describing the sand, there's a feeling associated with that, like, uh, I'm getting a picture of like the um from Alice in Wonderland, the rabbit the mad is no, the rabbit running around. I'm late, I'm late, I'm late, I'm late. He must have had ADHD, by the way, 100%.
Speaker 2:But um, you know that kind of grasping, this kind of energy inside, you know, and so that's a clue, and it doesn't mean like completely burned down river, because I think sometimes, sometimes it's our approach and if you change your approach, you know, like, so, like your business might be, like legit, let's say, business is the thing we spoke about that a lot. Your business might be legitimately a thing, a soul calling, but we can still approach it in a sand way. So if we're honest about ourselves and we start to turn the needle on that and start approaching it in a soil way which is, I think, what you did actually the sand will fall away. I don't think you have to make big decisions about what am I doing with this thing now. Shall I do this or shall I do that? I think you'll know when you know your job is just to take steps in the from a soil place.
Speaker 1:This is just fucker.
Speaker 2:And you know what, if you want help because I'm sitting there like, yeah, just get from a soil place. It's not easy, it ain't easy. It's not Just normalize that If you want help, come see me or Liv, yeah, we can help you. No one can do this alone. I've not done this alone. I want help all the time. I also think doing things alone is sand yes, spicy, yes, I will say that.
Speaker 1:Um so, oh god, just so many things about this conversation. I'm, as always, getting so many. Yeah, wow, just feel like we wrote like a whole curriculum I know I'm literally thinking the same thing.
Speaker 2:I'm going we've got to start doing some. We do plan actually to be doing some like workshops and programs and courses. But you know in our own time it's coming it's coming and it'll be fire when it comes um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah yeah, I was just gonna say that, um, something that has been birthed, uh, in my soil, summer that I've had is, uh, I've opened up my doors to work with people one-to-one in these small, intensive ways, and it's about coming home to your natural opulence. So this is really like what we've been talking about. How does the nature of your soul and system work? And the way that I've designed these experiences is like, um, it's I'm like sat here. I'm like I'm sat here in the richness of my, my process right now, and I'm like people need help designing their process to relate to themselves nice, as like natural opulent beings, and so, um, it felt really true for me to open up my doors to do these little, one-off intensives with people. So, um, that is available. So, if anyone's like listening to this and feeling drawn in in any way to be held and guided in that way, that's what Liv's got on the table right now.
Speaker 2:We'll put a link in the notes. Yeah, make a note to self of whether it won't happen. Have you got a page? You got a page yet? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's on my website.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can share it. Yeah, I'm really excited about them. That is so. It's beautiful to be in this place of like. Where does, where does our divinity meet our human experience and like our human journey? And how to um take stock? Where am I how to take stock? Where am I so important.
Speaker 2:What's the vision? What am I doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what am I doing? What am I guided by?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just stop moving for a second, will you?
Speaker 2:And just figure out what direction you're moving in. Yeah, we can be very busy going in the wrong direction for ourselves. I'm just saying, and we need to check in regularly, because these things change. What might have been once a good direction for you may not actually be anymore. We've got to check in all the time. Okay, wowzers, okay, well, that feels like a natural end, babe. Yeah, loved it. What a banger. Sand or soil. Would love to hear your thoughts on sand or soil, what you agree with, what we said, what you disagree with. Any comments? Um, what have you noticed in your own world? Like we literally welcome all of it. Drop us an email. We've got an email in our notes. We'd love to hear or send us a voice note, actually on instagram, I like voice notes oh yeah, we're voice note, galleys, yeah we've got go to juicy.
Speaker 2:Was it at juicy podcast on instagram? We're seeing the notes. Anyway, yeah, send us a voice note. We love voice notes. Thanks for listening people. We love you ciao we love you.
Speaker 1:Thank you everyone.
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