Ep 10: Postcards from the Other Side: Growth, Discernment and Empowered Womanhood

What if navigating life’s cyclical nature could unlock profound growth and transformation? Spoiler alert - it does!

Ever felt the weight of social pressures or the struggle to stay true to yourself in different environments?

This episode is a testament to the transformative power of a genuine "yes" and the journey towards a more balanced and fulfilling life. 

In our second catch-up episode following a six month break we catch up with Lola as she reflects on the challenges and transformations she has experienced, as well as the sense of wisdom and empowerment she has gained through her personal growth.

In this ep, Lola and Olivia:

• Discuss the art of holding space within group settings, particularly among women
• Discuss the significance of discernment and self-trust
• Open up about how recognising and honouring their personal limits is revolutionising their well-being
• Shed light on the beauty and lessons learned from the impactful experiences of parenting a child with autism. 
• Reflect on choosing rest over societal expectations 
• Share how an ADHD diagnosis illuminates the power of conscious choices and self-awareness.
• Delve into the importance of setting higher standards and recognising our true capacity

Join us for another heartfelt and insightful conversation about growth, authenticity, and the boundless possibilities of life.

Chapters

• 0:00 Fertile Living
• 11:06 Embracing Growth and Authenticity
• 23:09 Cultivating Fulfillment and Growth
• 27:19 Navigating Change and Personal Growth
• 41:17 Navigating Intimacy and Growth
• 56:38 Embracing Life's Limitless Potential

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:18

Hey, hello, hello everyone. Welcome back to the Juicy Pod. It is your girl, liv, also known as Olivia Lara Owen. We're really excited to be back. We had taken a big hiatus I think six long months, where lots of life happened, and in the last episode we really went into my process. I was really grateful we really got to. I really got to sort of bask in where I am and I think that's quite a rare experience. I was super grateful. So I hope that that was um, we just wanted to harvest the nugs from that conversation and when we finished, like you know what Lola has been in her parallel process to this, so we really wanted to go into Lola and talk a little bit about what's been going on for you, babe, because there's also been your own version of you know, we're always kind of living in some kind of a parallel process process and so we wanted to to continue that conversation, continue those themes, but really bring the attention to you. Lola, how are you doing?

Speaker 2: 2:32

thank you, I'm doing well today. I'm a bit tired, but I'm tired most of the time. I feel these days, um, but yeah, I'm doing well and love being back doing this, like, oh, I do love this pod, it's so much fun. I hope it's a. I hope it's fun for people to listen to too, because we really do enjoy making them. I think, it is, we get lots of uh, positive feedback.

Speaker 1: 3:01

You do thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 3:03

Yeah, yeah so it's June now and the last time we recorded was like February. I don't. I'm not going to go into like a blow blow blow because I don't really remember, but some of the pieces that are fresh in my mind around our time away was I worked a lot. I remember that. I remember the first chunk was just like a lot of working, a lot of holding um groups, which takes a toll and requires some recovery time, um as well. And then there's still individual clients to see and to work with, and then life to navigate and stuff. So, which is why the pod, just, we just couldn't get it together to record anything, um, and we always said that we didn't want it to be. We don't want that this pod to be that thing. You know, we're not trying to do it in a kind of um, patriarchal, capitalistic way like make it consistent, do it every week, or else you're failing. It's like no, we are gonna honor our, our rhythms, our, our lives, our patterns, our capacity, um, and especially as women. And so this is what you got.

Speaker 2: 4:17

A few months later, here we are back, but, um, I'm feeling much more because I'd moved at the back end of the year and the whole process was quite disorienting. Takes me a while to transition, feeling much more oriented to my surroundings and situation. The move was also a move that really has me enter into my caregiving era, you know. So I've got my son, who has some extra needs because he has autism and he's homeschooled, and also my mum, who is, you know, getting on and she's okay. Now she's got a few chronic illnesses. There's nothing kind of pressing happening, but at the same time you know she's just generally slower and weaker and needs support and so it's like a bit like having another child. So, you know, looking after her as well. Yes, there's a lot of work. I remember that and I just felt like I just couldn't even come up for air.

Speaker 2: 5:23

I think around Easter it calmed down a little bit and went back into a more of its natural flow, um and house stuff. We've got ongoing house stuff. We're going to have ongoing house stuff for about a year. So that's always just rumbling along in the background. But what I have really noticed is that we were talking a lot in the last episode about Liv's transition to move back to the UK and also the year nine, the completion piece around her life, and I can't remember the language you used, but it was really lovely language around the setting up for the next, the quality of the ending or something and how it influenced the beginning or the next cycle yeah, the fertility there we go, thank you, and um, I think I'm in my year six this year, so I'm not quite completing um, but this cycle, you know it's been underway for a few years and I actually am in a place where so I'm just coming back off the back of a really quite a sort of significant week, I can tell energetically, it's a significant week for me.

Speaker 2: 6:31

The week that's been really beautiful work. I was away. I don't go away for work as much as I used to pre-lockdown um through choice I turn a lot away, but um, I was away for work. And then I was away at the weekend for celebrating one of my best friend's birthdays and that's unusual for me to be away and out of the house for that long these days. But because I've left such a gap, I could really feel. I also feel like I could really see the effects of some of the changes I've been making over the last few years.

Speaker 2: 7:11

So the perspective I suppose I'm bringing in right now is, as we were talking last time, about living the endings of a cycle and the new beginning coming up that we're not even thinking about right now. We're just very focused on the endings of this cycle. What I bring to the table is someone who became aware of that cycle at the end or the end of my last nine-year cycle and it's very much in this current cycle. So I bring some perspective of what's the word, what's the language. I bring some perspective around the changes, the challenges and really, to be honest, how worth it they are.

Speaker 2: 7:53

That's what I want to bring this time and it's really fresh in my mind because of last week and I can see the difference because I haven't worked away for so long. In that way I can see the difference between the last time I did and who I am now, and even being with the group of people that I was with at the weekend same. I've been with some of these people over the years for a long time at um gatherings and I could again see the difference. So, yeah, and that felt really important and I'm still I'm still with it. I'm still kind of not really not really like my feet aren't really fully on the ground just yet, but I'm in a place of it's all worth it all of this that's what I'm kind of here to bring, like it's worth it, postcards from the other side, it's worth it something you said, um, I think just this week, when you were digesting the weekend away, you've had for your um, bessie's birthday.

Speaker 1: 9:01

Um, because I've really seen it in you, like I can really see that you live quite differently to a lot of other people I know and what, um, what I observe in you and you named it the other day is that you often are a no, you're like a no to most things.

Speaker 1: 9:29

So when you are a yes, you're really a yes and you actually leave an enormous amount of space between things, between seeing people, you know, social engagements, like your life's very slow and a lot of digestion happens before you do the next thing, and I think this is like interesting. I love this framing of you know I'm at this year nine, I'm sort of really learning this one. You're, you're six, almost like six years into the new cycle, where you really really learned that, and now your life is a reflection of what does it look like when you live that practice? Um, and what it kind of inspired me to think about was fertility not necessarily, you know, biologically fertile, like am I going to make a baby or not, but just when you actually are, really be into your own capacity, be into your own drum, living life really on your terms. What is your life then? Fertile for what gets to happen? Because you like, really designed it and followed and, like you know, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a reward that you're living that.

Speaker 2: 10:59

That really is very obvious and inspiring, I think yes, and I think last week was the realization of that. Actually for me, of the reward I don't know, I had language around it because I'm not really focused on a reward, I'm more focused, I'm way more focused on the journey. You know the steps I'm taking and, um, what's that phrase? There was that. So that phrase about the ends justifying the means? Like I don't, I don't believe in that. I believe that the means will justify the ends. You know. So it's like, if you want. So that's why I don't have to necessarily think about the ends, I just have to make sure, sure that the journey is infused with the energy of the thing that I want. So you know. So for me it's like, um, being true to myself, um sort of authenticity, joy, which is very personal, right, what brings us joy?

Speaker 2: 11:56

I'm really big for honoring my limits and my capacity and my patterns. I didn't for so many years, limits and my capacity and my patterns, I didn't for so many years and so many decades of my life. And when I started to acknowledge limits, which again I was led to do, that I was very reluctant, reluctantly, a reluctant participant for that, but I was really blown away at the difference it made in my life and it makes sense. Then you kind of break free and you're like, oh my God, like what a load of bollocks that was I was doing before. Like of course you have to honour your capacity. That does make sense, you know. Yeah, like we don't drive our cars beyond the petrol capacity, like we treat our cars and our phones and stuff sometimes better than we treat ourselves. Right, you make all these weird meanings where it's literally like well, there's not enough juice if you want to do that thing, then you have to have enough juice in the tank to do the thing, or accept that you don't have enough. Like it's okay, it's not a personal failing, right, that's some bullshit right there.

Speaker 2: 13:03

But, um, I think what I really noticed last week was, you know, going away can be quite difficult for me because you know you're away from your creature comfort. I've got very used to being around my family and I like the way I feel being around my family. Um, but what I found the difference last week was I stayed with myself. I felt like I was able to stay with myself the whole week. That's huge. I'm not, I haven't traditionally been able to do that, you know. Like I said I get I think I said in the last episode I get really, um, affected by other people and so if there's a lot of high hyperactive energy around, it's very easy for me to get enrolled in that. And obviously I'm a bit hyperactive myself, I do, I know, I get it. It's not all coming from outside. But, um, yeah, for me it was about choice. That's what I realized. I recognized like, oh, I've got more choices, you know, I can choose what I do.

Speaker 2: 14:06

Some of the things I used to have meanings associated to this didn't have the meanings associated to them anymore. So like, for instance, at the weekend, we had a big night on the first night. It was brilliant and we had such a good time. And I woke up the next morning very hungover and I knew that. I thought I just want to have breakfast and go back to bed. And old me would have felt like you can't do that. You're away for the weekend, like you've got to make the most of it, you know. But current me was like, no, I'm bloody tired and I'm going, gonna go back to bed, and it was more about the absence of things.

Speaker 2: 14:49

It was as simple as that, you know, and even just even being able to hear uh like positive self-talk in my mind just saying to me sometimes like you know what lo you don't have to. You know you don't have to be involved in everything. You know what Lo you don't have to. You know you don't have to be involved in everything. You know you don't have to be having all the fun all the time. Oh my God, do you remember all the fun, all the fun. That used to be our phrase. We used to be like how was it, babe, I had all the fun. Did you have all the fun? I had all the fun.

Speaker 1: 15:26

We were having all the fun. We're having all the fun all the time.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Oh, it's come a long way, you know, and I've still got it in my locker. I can still have all the fun when I want to have all the fun, but what we don't need, what it doesn't need to be, is like a compulsive thing where I don't feel like I have any choices apart from having all the fun all the time, which is exhausting for me, you know. And this year I said I think on the pod we did in February that my focus was going to be on not overriding and not over functioning or something. So I've also had my eye on that all year. And learning, and it feels as though some of that learning has been around. Like I was delivering groups back to back for about five weeks in a row. I never do that and I was like, oh my god. I literally said I want you to work less this year and I feel like I'm working more. What's going on? I almost didn't even know how that had happened and then, all of a sudden, it was just like I got to the end and I recognized like, oh, oh my God, I've been delivering five weeks in a row back to back. Delivery takes so much out of me, it doesn't leave much else. So then there's a backlog of stuff, messages to pretend to try to respond to, and stuff around the house. It was just horrible and then you got to recover from that. So I think there's an acceptance for me about what things take.

Speaker 2: 16:53

You know, I've had the ADHD diagnosis now that wasn't there, so I could really feel very sensitive as well. That's the other thing I noticed last week. I'm like, oh, my sensitivity is so much more heightened now Because I have been digesting a lot of like protective mechanisms you know the things that allow me to override. You know that I could feel, I could feel that new configuration of like, ah, I can see how in the past I couldn't even feel that, because I didn't want to feel that and I didn't want to know there was a choice other than keep going, keep doing, have all the fun, do all the things, because if you don't, it means something. I don't know what it means. It means you're a really boring person or something. So, yeah, that's been really beautiful. And then the other thing that I've really noticed that this is a gorgeous gift thing. What I've really noticed that this is a gorgeous gift, um, I noticed myself. I've noticed that I'm able to be with my friends in a completely different way than I used to because I was overstretched before. So I found that I could put more effort into the friendship and thinking and connecting, even going into the weekend as, like, I'm going to celebrate my girl this weekend. You know, and that is the main intention for the whole weekend that this woman knows how much she is loved and not just by me, because she's loved and she's surrounded by people that love her. And it felt like, you know, pretty much all of us were on the same page around that as well, which felt really beautiful and I really really do think she got to really feel that love and I could really feel again how, like I never this is new Like I never really get to access this because I'm so stretched thin with obligations and stuff around friendship.

Speaker 2: 19:00

The other thing that happened in the time off which was really significant was my best friend like, who had been friends since I was at school, secondary school, so it's like over 30 years. We haven't seen each other. For a few years, you know, we've both been really going for it, for lots has been happening and we also have a friendship that's very secure, right. So our friendship has never been based on um insecurity or anxiety. It's very secure. We know that we can not see each other for 10 years and slot straight back in and it works for both of us. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but it does work for us, and so we haven't rushed that.

Speaker 2: 19:44

And then it kept. The right time came up in the last few months and it was just beautiful just to spend the time together. Like there was so many benefits of that that I didn't expect the way that it felt to see her and just us two have time together doing nothing. I was just around her house. My system, my nervous system, was what told me that like, oh, I feel really safe here and free here and known here, you know, like attuned to I, could you know? Like, wow, she's really attuned. We're very attuned to each other and I love attunement. That's definitely something I've really learned over the last few months. Like attunement is really important to me and, um, I also recognize that it. What it felt like was like there was a really specific nutrient that I got that is only available in that friendship, and so what that sort of showed me was that different relationships bring different nutrients, and that's the beauty and that's the gift of, you know, friendships and stuff like the nutrients you get from being with different people. I can't get that nutrient that I got with her that day from anyone else. I really can't. There's just so much shorthand. Our families are so close to each other, you know. It's just so easy that and I didn't even know that I'd missed it. But as soon as I felt it, it's like, oh my god, I think I feel on some level like I think I've. I felt like I've been starved. I didn't recognize it and it's really easy.

Speaker 2: 21:33

I love what you said about being a no, because that's really important. I used to be a yes, my default used to be a yes. In my human design I've actually got the gate of yes as well, it turns out. So that also explains a little bit of oh okay, I definitely feel that pressure to say yes all the time to everything. Um, but being a no to everything has just been such a game changer for me because when because at first again, the soul was like no, no, no, no or not yes, the mind is like lots to say right about this. What are you doing? You gotta do this, you gotta do that, all this horrible shit, but it didn't feel, you know, like the thing to listen to. I got that. Oh my god, my yeses mean something, olivia. They mean something.

Speaker 2: 22:27

There's been a few times where, like recently, I was on instagram. I love ronnie cheng, I love comedy r Ronnie Chang, one of my favourites. He. I just saw his Instagram and he says I'm like I'm coming to London. Babes, the speed with which I snapped up some decent tickets was ridiculous. Right, I was. It was like I was racing or something. It was a competition, the speed at which I bought these tickets. And then afterwards I was like, see, when something's a yes, it's a fucking yes, babe, it's clear, you know.

Speaker 2: 23:09

So I've raised my standards significantly around that and so and it's not just about the people, like sometimes it's about the timing and you know, there's all sorts of things that kind of come into what makes things a yes or a no. But I have a lot on my plate. My life is really full in many ways and it's acknowledging that. It's acknowledging like, actually there's not a lot of space left over for various reasons at the end of the day, and it's not personal to anybody. And actually, if someone wants to take it personal, they're probably not for me, because the people that are for me don't take stuff like that personally. They're not.

Speaker 2: 23:48

No, um, and you know what as well? There were moments as well where I've cried in appreciation in the last few months. I'm so much more than my son, you know, like that's been the best feeling, just feeling really attuned to him. Um, a big thing about him having autism has just always been like I don't really get it and I'm like learning all the time and I'm not saying I get it still, but I definitely feel more comfortable with, with how I am with it. Um, I'm seeing, I'm, I'm seeing him blossom or something. I'm seeing him kind of something's happening and it's beautiful and it feels right. And he said like a yeah, it's like a blossoming, I'm doing the thing with my hands. It's almost like you know. I mean, it's like a yeah, something's unfolding in the right direction for him and I'm kind of along the sides holding space for it, watching it and um, yeah, he's such a teacher, such a teacher for me. It's incredible all what he continues to teach me, what.

Speaker 1: 25:10

I hearing in that you're talking about you use like a big hand motion here, like things being in bloom, and you started at the beginning talking about, you know, being in the year six, and what feels really clear to me from this observer position, both in watching you live your life and also everything you're sharing, is that the, the soil and the seas from the beginning, the year ones, two, three have created this gorgeous garden that you're experiencing now, and I think that's what you're saying when you're like wink, wink, it's worth it, like this is actually what's possible, and even just the phrase like accept that you don't have enough, that alone people could be working on that what do you mean?

Speaker 1: 26:06

what, except you don't have enough you like you were talking earlier, but you've been talking a lot about capacity and no, and even when you say yes, I mean yes and like how much joy that brings you.

Speaker 1: 26:20

It has such like even the energy of your yes feels different. It's got this like it's a real yes and I I was sat here being like I can just imagine there's people that don't even know what that really feels like, truly, you know, and that so many of us really struggle with not being able to accept that we don't have enough. We've said on earlier episodes about like how pretty much everybody we know is doing too much, right? So this transition of like I know I'm doing too much, am I actually willing to do anything about it? Okay, I'm willing to do a little bit about it. Okay, I'm willing to actually change some of my habits and behaviors and then shortly my life looks completely different and I have a lot less in it than it did before. But the satisfaction and the nourishment that comes from the things that are in it are enormous absolutely like this feeling.

Speaker 2: 27:19

I think, deep down I've, I've always wanted this feeling yeah um, and it is a feeling that's kind of like at the end of a series of choices. It's like a result of a series of choices is like a result of a series of choices. You know, that's how we make, that's how we change, that's how we make changes in our life right, choice by choice, by choice by choice, not big, sweeping, massive things that we can't sustain, and we hold space for the process as well. Like I said, I was like, right, I'm gonna do over function, I'm gonna, you know, not over function. And then I find myself like I feel like doing the most over functioning, over functioning ways I haven't even done in well, over like 15 years. All of a sudden I'm like, oh my god, this is going is going so wrong. What's going on?

Speaker 2: 28:15

I had a teacher years ago and so much of what she said stayed with me and she said, she said this thing she used to say if you pray for more patients, expect to stand in a lot more queues, you know, and it's that kind of thing. And often people think, imagine, I'm like, oh, I'm going to focus on over, over functioning and over, yeah, over functioning, overworking, and then I'm busier, way too busy, even though I don't actually even know how it's happened. Some people will read that as like, oh I'm failing, but actually I think it is interesting that I was found myself in a position of overworking in a way that I haven't even done for a really long time. It told me that it was part of the process of the thing I was I'd asked for, you know, one last hurrah maybe?

Speaker 1: 29:15

oh, absolutely. Well, it reminds me of, like you know, this piece that we want to see where we're at with both sides of the coin, right? So if suddenly a bunch of work comes in and then you find yourself over functioning, you get to see, maybe, the difference in how you respond to that versus what used to be like 15 years ago I was present yes, felt it, you know, whereas you're right.

Speaker 2: 29:43

In the past I would have numbed out from it, you know totally. No, I did have a chunk of a big chunk of disassociation run through my system at one point, after which might have actually been okay I can see the little thread now that's linking it all but yeah, there was definitely a massive chunk of disassociation that um had a like a week of feeling really disassociated. Um, yes, an intense way, as I thought, but it felt like a wave of. It was like digesting.

Speaker 1: 30:16

What I remember from that time because it's really distinct when I don't remember the working time too much, cause I think that was when I was moving but I do remember the after part and I do remember the disassociation. I remember that week and what feels really, what really stands out for me was the way you were talking about it. You're like Liv, just letting you know that I'm feeling really disassociated right now and I'm just here and I'm in it. And it was the first time obviously for me as an observer to your life, also front row seat.

Speaker 1: 30:52

You've been kind of, I would say, somewhat seamlessly, going through this transition of moving house, moving your family into it might have felt seamless to you over there, babe, yeah, but in the way you've been holding yourself through it has felt really, really I want to say the word masterful, but it's like I can see the growth in you and that you've been so ready, like you've been able to do it. And then when you're you've been in this new land. I can't even really remember the old way. Now it's so normal that you live with mum and you're all in the house together and that you're, you know, you're doing your thing. What's interesting is to me, you felt so much more stable and nourished on this side of it, 100%. Even when you've been overworking, even when you've been disassociating, it's not been like catastrophic or like collapse. You're not collapse like, you're just like. This is what's happening right now yes, that's so true.

Speaker 2: 32:09

I do feel, yeah, and there's something about the word that's coming up as you say that is right. Yeah, I always feel like that's the word that describes it for me, and I don't mean right or wrong or right and left, but like right, I don't know. It's like I'm some kind of in the right place at the right time. Aligned kind of vibe is what I mean. Yeah, and it's you know, that feeling when you're like something's happening and it's hard and it's challenging, but somewhere you know it's the right thing to do, you know that on track, it just doesn't feel great. That is what guides me on a self-help level.

Speaker 2: 32:50

I can feel, yeah, right, I can feel when things are right, you know. And so, yeah, you're right, I did always have that in there, like even when it was bloody challenging and it was very challenging, you know, like it's living with my mum again has brought up a lot, a hell of a lot of stuff within my system, but, interestingly enough, similar to you actually in terms of returning, there's been luck for me too, right, and some healing is happening that can only happen by living with my mum again and actually how I feel now is quite separate from her, actually in a healthy way. Yeah, for my entire freaking life actually, um, we're getting on really well. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of love. I love my mom, you know, I really do, and she loves me, I can, you know, and there's a lot of respect and care and it's just beautiful.

Speaker 1: 34:01

It just really feels, you know, um well, you called it your uh at the beginning. You called it the carer. I've entered my carer and the carer has to include you. Yeah, it does, you're right, so every everyone's included in the carrier. Like you said to me recently, I'm like mothering myself, a mother and my mom, a mother and my son. Right, that's a lot of mothering that you're doing, but you are included in that mothering. Yeah, and it to me, as an observer, I feel like you've. You're really tending to the foundation of your life, to the thing that's actually holding you up, has got a lot of love being poured into it what we're building now, you're right, it's that it's from the ground up, built on the white foundations.

Speaker 2: 34:54

That's it, because we've not not inherited foundations, you know. I mean not just once past and like, oh, this is, this, is just what we've got. We're turning that lead into gold, you know, we're turning the wounds into wisdom and the pain into power and all that kind of shit, because I think that's what you're supposed to do, um, and we're building on it and that again, that's the self leadership piece again popping in there, because it is that it's like the language I suppose I use is creating a new reality for myself and my family and we. That's what we're here for, that's our driving light and it's a reality that allows everyone to thrive and we don't take what we're given. You know which is.

Speaker 2: 35:38

You know there's a reality, there's a parallel universe, where Lola has a son that got diagnosed with autism when he was 13 or 12. And she's still fighting the school system to get what she needs and it's not working. And you know she's up and it's not working. And you know she's up the school all the time. She's feeling despair and futility. But I knew that was not me. You know, once that happened again. Everything just clicks into place where I'm like, yeah, bless them, no disrespect to them, but they don't have a fucking clue what to do about this and I'm not leaving my son in their hands, because that is not all that's available to him. So what does he need? You know how are we going to do this? And then we've created what he needs and we continue to create that. You know, we're in a different phase now.

Speaker 2: 36:29

I feel like he's been out of school a year. He feels like a lot of the damage has been reversed, because that was the focus for us. The first year was like let's, you know, let's reverse some of the damage that's been done by being in us. And it's not, it's nobody's fault. I really make that clear, because he actually went to a school that I really adored, but he's not right for that. He's just not right for it for various reasons, and they didn't build that with him in mind. So I'm going to build him stuff with him in mind, right, and we are seeing, a year later, the um, the impact of that. It's beautiful, it's so beautiful to see. Yeah, it's so.

Speaker 2: 37:18

There's been a lot of tears.

Speaker 2: 37:19

There's been a lot of happy tears, a lot of happy tears, because it has just been this for all the times, really during the process, where I've stepped out to do things without any proof or evidence, but following that thing inside of me that says do this, don't, don't do that, in a world where people don't understand, and we'll just say stuff Cause they can't help it, even though I never asked yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:56

So just all the little steps, all those little micro steps, and all the times where I've all the panic, all the moments where I've been like what the actual fuck am I doing? Like I'll talk now I am making a huge mistake. You know I'm doing something so wrong, I'm fucking up my kid, or you know, just horrible, dark, panicked thoughts. You know when you that are normal, but bloody normal when you choose to opt out of the status quo, but still at the moment I don't, in those moments I don't think this is normal, this is because I'm opting out of the status quo. No, in those moments I'm like. I mean, I think, to be honest, I feel quite frozen in terror.

Speaker 1: 38:41

In those moments I don't really say much, I'm just like it's so real, like the way you talk about this, even just being a parent, and then you're also a parent of a child with additional needs, and you're also a parent of a child with additional needs and you're also navigating homeschooling and you're dealing with a diagnosis slightly later in life. You know like there's so much to this, and elderly parent, like care era is complex and care era is in sort of direct response to the reality in front of you and I feel like you do such a beautiful job of being like I actually don't know what I'm doing, but I do trust myself yeah, basically like the authority inside.

Speaker 1: 39:32

I trust that thing and so, of course, there's going to be really, really hard moments. It's very, um, I think you do a beautiful job of as a parent and I can see this in the way that I talk to other parents about autism because of the conversations we've had like what it's like to be a mum of a child with autism. You do such a good job of being with the reality of what it's like for you, not in any way taking away from also really thinking deeply about his needs and listening and paying attention and parenting him based on the reality and the beauty of who he is, but also the reality and the beauty of who you are as his parent, and I think that's yeah. We talked in the last episode about holding quality, high quality space and like what is it to hold high quality space for someone as a parent, knowing that each parenting journey is so unique?

Speaker 2: 40:36

I think that's what I personally think that is what we're supposed to do as parents. I think that feels true, it's difficult, but it feels like, well, surely that's what, that's what people need. You know, can you hold the space for somebody to be themselves? I mean, I do it for a living, so I've got a little bit. You know, I've got a professional piece and actually I really like holding space, like I'm a great space holder and comes, so it comes. I think it comes quite naturally to me and I also put the graft in.

Speaker 2: 41:17

You know, the practice in Last week as well. That was part of the beauty of last week as well. I mean, before we'd even went away for the weekend, I'd already had an amazing week working and we did hold exquisite space for the group of women that we were working with. I also felt I was working with two other facilitators, so I felt like we held exquisite space for each other. But there was also personal responsibility, like because sometimes what can happen is, when you are a good space holder, some people can feel that instinctively, and those people are people who are always looking for somebody to hold them energetically, right, um, which is okay, nothing not saying that's a wrong thing or a bad thing, but I think when you're wired like me, you have to get good at recognizing that. So you're not available for that, unless you choose to be, and unfortunately I've found that with co-facilitators sometimes, which is a horrific feeling of feeling like, um, I feel like I'm holding you and the group now, as opposed to we are holding the group.

Speaker 2: 42:35

So again, I've made a lot of no, I've said no to lots of things, and I'm very particular about who I work with. You know, um, I think we should be discernment at this. All of this stuff I'm talking about is really just that discernment having good judgment, which I don't think we're encouraged to have. I actually feel like a lot of the systems that we live in require us to not have the ability to discern in order to maintain itself, and especially women. I find that women generally have got terrible discernment on the whole. You know what I mean. So, because we've not been allowed to, you know, when we're sitting here talking about me saying no to everything, there's a whole gender piece about being the woman that says no yeah not everyone wants to yeah, totally, totally, it's like, I like, I like what you said there about discernment.

Speaker 1: 43:38

It's definitely one of my life lessons is discernment and I love the framing of it being good judgment, and I think that's a great thing to aim for. Like, did I have good judgment in that moment? I think woman did I didn't. Okay, cool, I didn didn't, I misjudged that it really is.

Speaker 2: 44:03

It's about it's maturity, right, and it's big woman ting. There's a few things that I think come with being a big woman. You know, I love big woman ting. I learned that phrase. Well, I didn't learn it, but I remember in um when I worked to prison. I love language also in all the forms and, yeah, a lot of the boys would always say, like it's a big man ting, it's a big man ting in it, and so I've adapted it for us it's a big woman ting, but it is it's like things like this, uh clarifying when you were in prison, lella.

Speaker 2: 44:37

Oh yeah, I wasn't incarcerated.

Speaker 1: 44:40

It works. We often make this mistake.

Speaker 2: 44:43

I know I always forget I'm just saying, when people's eyes change, you're like what's wrong with them. You're like, oh, I've just heard it. But yeah, there are, I think, things like discernment, grace. There are a few qualities that I think come with. They don't sit in young girl energy, because you know they're, they're in big woman. It's a big woman team and discernment is one you have to have. Discernment you really do. And, yeah, cultivate it. You have to start to cultivate it absolutely it's such a uh, muscle building exercise.

Speaker 1: 45:25

Basically, yeah, attunement and practice and deep listening and self-trust and skill and good feedback right leadership, though everything you've broken down.

Speaker 1: 45:41

It's like let's design juicy leadership and it would have all of those kind of elements in it, cover all of those things for me, I think a place where I've can see a lot of growth in this area is around my romantic and intimate life with men. When I first start working with women, around their capacity to receive love, attention, pleasure, touch. Often, you know, the kind of female conditioning is like eager beaver bag the man as fast as we can override the self, override the body, override the inner. Knowing big lack of discernment and good judgment tends to be driven by a wound or some kind of desperation, hunger. That's sort of like a lot of the conditioning that a lot of us are working with, and one of the only ways I've been able to transform this has been around slowing everything right down, like so much slower to enter into intimacy with somebody for the first time, like really taking my time so I can make good judgments about where I am actually at clear signals, clear read of the room, clear clear, clear read of okay, what is this currently and what is actually available being offered here, not what I want to be available being offered, what's actually offered.

Speaker 1: 47:28

Am I okay with that kind of make a good decision based on that? And it's like, uh, you know, really a speed thing, right. So right now I'm in a bit of a turtle phase in my life. I'm very slowly opening myself up to day in which is nice, like a like a new phase, and I'm a turtle, pretty much like just coming out of my shell, and it's a gentle toe dip. I'm not like like JLo fucking strutting out in the bizarchi dress. It's like soft, tender, easing in is the speed right it's it's like knowing that's where I am, so make a judgment based on that. I wouldn't be going like jetting off for a spontaneous week with a new fella, you know.

Speaker 2: 48:27

I mean it's like knowing that where are you and a lot of what you said there when I was listening to you was was kind of like a um, leading with your feminine is what I heard like leading with feminine energy. So you know the slowness. And when you said like a turtle going slow, I felt like, well, yeah, two bloody right, like you're doing something new, when does it? When does it how? When has it ever made sense that we do something new and we do it at speed, like that's not a thing? You know, we doing something new, we're getting a lay of the land, aren't we? First, we're kind of like, okay, let's have a look, let's check what's what that feels healthy, you know, that feels mature and that feels sort of self-respectful as well and all that kind of like this speed you said. You said something about overriding all the overriding stuff, all the speeds.

Speaker 2: 49:30

I would stick that with masculine energy. You know that kind of moving quickly, getting things um will use, now will I don't? I just don't think relationships respond to that. And again, it's that whole piece around the means justifying the ends. So, unless what you're looking for at the end of this is a partner where you have to do everything, you're always in control, you set the pace. You know, if that's what you're looking for, carry on, fill your boots, go as fast as you like, do your thing. But it is like, what are you looking for at the end? That's got to be in it in the process. And I know the things you're looking for are really things that will support you, will support you in your expression of your healthy feminine energy and that's going to be somebody in their healthy expression of their masculinity.

Speaker 2: 50:41

Not only you know, we all have both, but you know, I mean so there's so I'm, I'm seeing like. For me it feels like okay, I feel like you're on the right motorway for the destination that you are wanting to go. You know you're not on the m1 heading south. If goes in the uk, it won't make any sense to you. Surely you can fill in. The just right m1 goes north, it doesn't go south. That's my point. I'm in the south. For me, I feel like I've had to over qualify it too much. I'm going to stop thank you for that.

Speaker 1: 51:19

I absolutely love that frame. That's really nice, that's helpful. It's like a nice way to, I think, uh, paint the feeling with words and language yeah, you're on the right motorway go around around the n25 can't get off. Oh, you know what? There's anyone that doesn't know. That's like the circular remote with. It goes around london and it just goes. There's no, uh, there's no end. To it like hell. But um.

Speaker 2: 52:05

There was a moment last week when I was work because it it's really useful, isn't it? To revisit things. That, yeah, to revisit things, situations, circumstances, people, whatever. I find those kind of things useful because that's where I get to see the change. I get to see like, oh, I'm different, I'll be like this normally, and the work piece last week was just honestly, so enriching I could I just it felt worth it. It just felt like I'm so glad I've said no to everything. That's what it feels like, so I can be available, and it was a match. It was like this is the perfect match of what I bring. We did like um.

Speaker 2: 52:47

We was at the horses. We do like the equine leadership in one of the companies I work with and it's beautiful down the farm learning about leadership from horses and getting instant, energetic feedback. It's incredible and it was the first time that I had been on one of those days where it was all women. It's always been like mixed groups. I haven't actually been with a group through that process since before the lockdown. Just before the lockdown, I had my last one um, and it was like just being there at the end of that day and just how it felt. Everything felt just so real, so authentic. There was so much range. All the women were so different. It was incredible the celebration of the differences of the women. You could really feel how everybody felt genuinely free enough to be themselves and we're we're meeting them in a work setting right. These are not women that have, like, opted in to do this course and paid for it out of their own pocket and, um, even the facilitation team doing the horsework directly were all women and I've literally never experienced that before.

Speaker 2: 53:59

But I could also feel like this dream, like this kind of like. I feel like I've. I feel like this is like an unconscious dream I didn't even know I had that's just been met right now, you know, and I could really feel how. There's been times where I've done this in the past and I've just thought I have, in fact, I've got a colleague that often says, oh god, I'd love to do this work with just all women and I don't even know if I've really those words ever came out my mouth, because I didn't know that was possible. You know, that could all that could ever be a reality like that back then. So it's just, it's just been beautiful. I'm in real celebration mode. Um, and it looks like exhaustion. Actually, I'm really tired. I'm really tired I need. I think I might be all right after this weekend.

Speaker 1: 54:48

Just so gorgeously done, babe, like you're really occupying a very specific pole right now as a woman, and the way you're leading your life in all of these different ways it's all for something.

Speaker 2: 55:06

I can feel it. There's things to come, there's. Yeah, I'm being prepared for this next level of work that's going to be coming out of me and my book I can see, guess my book's paused because it's like, yeah, I might have to start again. Who knows, I don't mind whatever, but the book has paused because I'm so I don't know something like I feel quite far away from the woman who started writing the book In.

Speaker 1: 55:36

In fact, I'm miles away from her what a beautiful ode to the creative process and the, the constant like reimagining of it and evolution.

Speaker 2: 55:55

I think was Steve Jobs got that lovely quote um part of his. He had a speech, a commencement speech he did at Stanford University I don't know when, but it's really easy to find on internet and the gist of it is that life makes sense backwards and he says something like, something like you can't connect the dots by looking forward. You can only connect them by looking back. So you've got to believe in something, whether it's your gut, karma, destiny, you have to believe in something that guides you forward and then it will make sense backwards. And I'm here for that. I think he's completely right. That is how I've experienced life to be as well, and often people are looking for the sense forwards and you're not. You're not going to get it, and it's actually going to. I think that's going to limit you and start what you, the amazingness that you can actually bring that is an absolutely gorgeous closing note big up, man like steve yeah, big up steve as we record on what's it called my MacBook.

Speaker 1: 57:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:23

I don't think I need to say that to be honest with you, End it.

Speaker 1: 57:29

Thanks everyone for listening.

Speaker 2: 57:34

Thanks, people, we'll see you again real soon. Sending you a ton of love, ciao, ciao.